I noticed that someone asked why Elizabeth choose Francis over Ross? What is everyone's thoughts?
Elizabeth stated some reasons but what does everyone think?
Why did Elizabeth choose Francis over Ross?
Moderator: laurie
Why did Elizabeth choose Francis over Ross?
Rhonda in Australia
Re: Elizabeth's choice
I always thought that, Elizabeth, being a rather selfish person, made a conscious decision to choose the man who she thought (at that time) would give her the best life.
Francis, at the time of his marriage, was wealthy enough, an only son, a good name and with something of the Poldark sense of adventure that made Ross so appealing.
Ross on the other hand, had no money, none of the social graces that she valued so much and was a mite too headstrong to be of any use to her. We know that, whatever his feelings for the women in his life, they ultimately can't compete with his need for excitement and adventure and Eizabeth could not have coped with that. She would have wanted to be the centre of his world and he simply wasn't like that.
I don't think that her decision was in any way based on emotion. But then, that was the norm at that time. We are slightly spoiled by the Ross/Demelza and Caroline/Dwight relationships as love matches were relatively rare amongst the landed gentry. They were the exception, rather than the rule.
I believe that her decision would be the same if Ross had still been in the country. His being away only made it easier for her and gave her the excuse she needed, or so she thought.
But, it all went pear shaped when Francis did not turn out to be the doting, wealthy husband that she was banking on, hence her relief when he died and she could start on George.
However, I also think that, even if Ross had offered to leave Demelza for her, she would have found a way to back out of it. She seemed to only declare an interest when she knew that he was safely tied elsewhere.
Just my little thoughts.........
Sarah
Francis, at the time of his marriage, was wealthy enough, an only son, a good name and with something of the Poldark sense of adventure that made Ross so appealing.
Ross on the other hand, had no money, none of the social graces that she valued so much and was a mite too headstrong to be of any use to her. We know that, whatever his feelings for the women in his life, they ultimately can't compete with his need for excitement and adventure and Eizabeth could not have coped with that. She would have wanted to be the centre of his world and he simply wasn't like that.
I don't think that her decision was in any way based on emotion. But then, that was the norm at that time. We are slightly spoiled by the Ross/Demelza and Caroline/Dwight relationships as love matches were relatively rare amongst the landed gentry. They were the exception, rather than the rule.
I believe that her decision would be the same if Ross had still been in the country. His being away only made it easier for her and gave her the excuse she needed, or so she thought.
But, it all went pear shaped when Francis did not turn out to be the doting, wealthy husband that she was banking on, hence her relief when he died and she could start on George.
However, I also think that, even if Ross had offered to leave Demelza for her, she would have found a way to back out of it. She seemed to only declare an interest when she knew that he was safely tied elsewhere.
Just my little thoughts.........
Sarah
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wintergirl
- Bookworm
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- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:16 pm
Interesting observations.
I think Elizabeth chose Francis over Ross because she was actually afraid of the feelings that Ross had aroused in her. I think she believed that Francis was a "safer" choice. She was not courageous enough to live her life with a man who was a bit of a renegade, unpredictable and did not place a high value on social conventions. A man who would throw caution to the wind and stand up for what he believed in, even if it was not the popular position. He also could not supply the money, the comfortable house and the predictibility she craved, which Francis and later George could provide her. Ross was a very passionate man in many ways. I think his passion for life and love scared her. It is this passion that Ross embodies which makes him so attractive to me.
I always saw Elizabeth as aloof, not fragile but weak and mostly self-centered. What Elizabeth needed always seemed to come first. There is also the fact that she probably had parental pressure to make a union with the "better" Poldarks. From what I've just re-read in Ross Poldark, Elizabeth's mother did not like Ross at all for his wild ways and adventurous activities, not always quite within the law. I think during those days, especially, your parent's wishes would hold a lot of weight in making matches for marriage. And Elizabeth was just not strong enough to go after what she really wanted, if in fact in was Ross that she wanted more than the position, nice house, money and predictable life.
Just my 2 cents (pence?).
WinterGirl
I think Elizabeth chose Francis over Ross because she was actually afraid of the feelings that Ross had aroused in her. I think she believed that Francis was a "safer" choice. She was not courageous enough to live her life with a man who was a bit of a renegade, unpredictable and did not place a high value on social conventions. A man who would throw caution to the wind and stand up for what he believed in, even if it was not the popular position. He also could not supply the money, the comfortable house and the predictibility she craved, which Francis and later George could provide her. Ross was a very passionate man in many ways. I think his passion for life and love scared her. It is this passion that Ross embodies which makes him so attractive to me.
I always saw Elizabeth as aloof, not fragile but weak and mostly self-centered. What Elizabeth needed always seemed to come first. There is also the fact that she probably had parental pressure to make a union with the "better" Poldarks. From what I've just re-read in Ross Poldark, Elizabeth's mother did not like Ross at all for his wild ways and adventurous activities, not always quite within the law. I think during those days, especially, your parent's wishes would hold a lot of weight in making matches for marriage. And Elizabeth was just not strong enough to go after what she really wanted, if in fact in was Ross that she wanted more than the position, nice house, money and predictable life.
Just my 2 cents (pence?).
WinterGirl
I think you are all being a bit hard on Elizabeth. I have read the books many times and I'm almost afraid to say that - I liked her!!! She was a victim of her time. In today's world she would probably disregarded her parents disapproval and married him. The whole point ( and this is where I think Winston is such a wonderful writer because he truly understood people's emotions) is that she was not right for Ross. She did not have his spirit of adventure. She would not have been able to defy convention. I know and count among my friends many people like her.
I also know many Demelza's among my friends. Fiesty, sexy women who attack and get on with life. That does not mean that women like Demelza are any better. But they need and are happiest with men like Ross.
I hope this makes sense. It's just that I feel Winston himself did not hate the Elizabeth he created but he understood what motivated her. In fact Winston was such a great creator of character's since he understood what motivated all of them!!!
I also know many Demelza's among my friends. Fiesty, sexy women who attack and get on with life. That does not mean that women like Demelza are any better. But they need and are happiest with men like Ross.
I hope this makes sense. It's just that I feel Winston himself did not hate the Elizabeth he created but he understood what motivated her. In fact Winston was such a great creator of character's since he understood what motivated all of them!!!
Dear Maggie,
I think, you are very right. I, too, feel sympathy for Elizabeth. It wouldn't have been very credible, if she - of all people - had decided to break the engagement with Francis to marry Ross.
She was under 20 years of age, her family poor, but gentry, with a dominant manipulative mother, who was determined, that Elizabeth married the "right" Poldark. I agree that Elizabeth is a perfect example for Winston Graham's mastery. Not only is she necessary as a counterpart to Demelza, she is very finely drawn as well, I think.
And I guess, we should not forget, that in those times there were other motives for getting married than love. Elizabeth is a true daughter of her era in considering other aspects than romance as well.
What life would she have had with Ross? He had to struggle for success, which was in no way certain, his house was almost in ruins. Elizabeth had been brought up in a different way, in comfortable circumstances with servants to protect her from the more harsh aspects of life. Let's be honest, love sometimes wears out pretty fast, when your house is dirty and shabby, when you have to fight daily for pure necessities, when you don't know, how it will all be tomorrow, when the husband gets a little drink (or more) to relax, when the wife starts to nag...
And Elizabeth paid a price for her decision. Francis turned out to be more the frog than Prince Charming. She wasn't half as well off than she had hoped she would be. But there was no way out. I feel sorry for her, and I find we have a lot in common. I admire Demelza for her courage, her initiative, her stance, her uncompromising way to stand by her man, but if I'm honest, I'm pretty sure, I could never be like her.
Regards, Claudia
I think, you are very right. I, too, feel sympathy for Elizabeth. It wouldn't have been very credible, if she - of all people - had decided to break the engagement with Francis to marry Ross.
She was under 20 years of age, her family poor, but gentry, with a dominant manipulative mother, who was determined, that Elizabeth married the "right" Poldark. I agree that Elizabeth is a perfect example for Winston Graham's mastery. Not only is she necessary as a counterpart to Demelza, she is very finely drawn as well, I think.
And I guess, we should not forget, that in those times there were other motives for getting married than love. Elizabeth is a true daughter of her era in considering other aspects than romance as well.
What life would she have had with Ross? He had to struggle for success, which was in no way certain, his house was almost in ruins. Elizabeth had been brought up in a different way, in comfortable circumstances with servants to protect her from the more harsh aspects of life. Let's be honest, love sometimes wears out pretty fast, when your house is dirty and shabby, when you have to fight daily for pure necessities, when you don't know, how it will all be tomorrow, when the husband gets a little drink (or more) to relax, when the wife starts to nag...
And Elizabeth paid a price for her decision. Francis turned out to be more the frog than Prince Charming. She wasn't half as well off than she had hoped she would be. But there was no way out. I feel sorry for her, and I find we have a lot in common. I admire Demelza for her courage, her initiative, her stance, her uncompromising way to stand by her man, but if I'm honest, I'm pretty sure, I could never be like her.
Regards, Claudia
Ross, Elizabeth and Francis
I feel sorry for Francis, I quite liked him. He just needed to someone to love him passionately and stand by him, and that wasn't going to be Elizabeth. I think he got very short changed in that marriage. Remember the bit when he talked to Demelza about the Ross/Elizabeth thing - that was very telling of how much he envied Ross Demelza's wholehearted love. Elizabeth was the right wife for George though. He genuinely loved her as well as where she had come from was an added bonus.... oh, and also that Ross and Francis had loved her but he had her now! She was definitely the wrong wife for Ross.
Rhonda in Australia
I entirely agree. I think it is in the book Warleggan that Ross reflects that the what had happened between him and Elizabeth, between Elizabeth and Francis and their unhappy marriage and even between himself and Demelza was all down to the indecision or wrong decision of one woman. Of course later in the book he realises that after having "had" Elizabeth so to speak - that Demelza was exactly the right wife for him - and that there is more to love than than worshipping an ideal. Happily for him Elizabeth's decision had turned out to be the right one.
Elizabeth had more instinct and intuition than she has been given credit for and she instinctively knew that Ross was dangerous as far as she was concerned.
She was frightened of his blatent sexuality and the feelings they stirred in her. Her mother had instilled in her that sex was a duty but not something to be enjoyed. She then found that to perform this duty for Francis was more than she could bear. Francis - having gained his prize from his cousin whom he had always envied - found that it had turned out to be a poisened chalice. Elizabeth's marriage with George was exactly right for her as he was obviously not so demanding as Francis. She should have married George at the first.
But then there would have been no story to tell.
Elizabeth had more instinct and intuition than she has been given credit for and she instinctively knew that Ross was dangerous as far as she was concerned.
She was frightened of his blatent sexuality and the feelings they stirred in her. Her mother had instilled in her that sex was a duty but not something to be enjoyed. She then found that to perform this duty for Francis was more than she could bear. Francis - having gained his prize from his cousin whom he had always envied - found that it had turned out to be a poisened chalice. Elizabeth's marriage with George was exactly right for her as he was obviously not so demanding as Francis. She should have married George at the first.
But then there would have been no story to tell.
I don't agree that Elizabeth not marrying Ross had to do anything with the sexual feelings he stirred in her. I think it has everything to do with the fact that Elizabeth was raised to choose financial stability in her life. Considering that Ross was starting all over again, and considering that Demelza came from a hard working back ground, she was just the person Ross needed to help get him back on his feet. Demelza was not afraid to get down and dirty. Really, I do not think Elizabeth would have tolerated working the land,planting crops and doing manual labor on Nampara, and there was lots of it to get the Poldarks back on their feet. I actually think Elizabeth was more afraid of Marrying Ross, because she did not want to have to struggle to attain financial stability, and that is all.
Lillian (Lily)Darcey Gonzalez
Lillian (Lily)Darcey Gonzalez
LilyDarcey
Elizabeth's complexity stands as a tribute to WG's writing prowess; she certainly grows throughout the series. Young Elizabeth is under her tyrannical mother's thumb; she cannot bring herself to choose the less reliable renegade Ross, with his dark moods and restless spirit over the seemingly more promising and stable Francis. Elizabeth also feared the unknowns in life as a young woman. Disappointed, older and wiser, she chooses George Warleggan to provide a secure future for Geoffrey Charles and herself. In a strange way, she's earned her life of luxury with George, though it comes with strings that strangle her in the end. During her term as Mrs. Warleggan, Elizabeth comes into her own; she gains confidence and strength that push her marriage to the breaking point. Ironically, it's Ross' near-rape of her that creates the fly in her ointment. It's almost as though her fate is sealed after she initially refuses to marry Ross. I wept when she died in the books and the series. She was so close to sorting it all out, but all the secrets exacted a heavy toll.