Mightier than the sword?

Post by **clong** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:59 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/opini ... .html?_r=1

CodeBlower · Post by **CodeBlower** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:31 am

Puns are the feeblest species of humor because they are ephemeral: whatever comic force they possess never outlasts the split second it takes to resolve the semantic confusion. Most resemble mathematical formulas: clever, perhaps, but hardly occasion for knee-slapping. The worst smack of tawdriness, even indecency, which is why puns, like off-color jokes, are often followed by apologies.

I had heard it was: "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Pun and you laugh alone."

It is said that Caligula ordered an actor to be roasted alive for a bad pun. (Some believe he was inclined to extremes.)

Somebody hide Brad!

.. for a bad pun.

Wait! Was he roasted because Caligula didn't like the pun -- or because the actor screwed up the "punchline"?

Post by **Darb** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:41 am

Puns are the feeblest species of humor

I <strike>resemble</strike> resent that remark !

umsolopagas · Post by **umsolopagas** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:42 pm

What a whiner. He is probably not fast with jokes either. There are thigh-slapping puns as well as the drab throat-clearing eye-averting ones, the same as jokes.

voralfred · Post by **voralfred** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:15 pm

Yes, umsolopagas, I entirely agree with you. This whiner probably can't tell a gook joke either.

Punsters of the Word, unite!

(There is NO typo in the line above
"Et s'il n'en reste que deux, nous serons ceux-lÃ ", he, Brad?
"If only two are left, we are going to be them" is a quote by me and Brad that Victor Hugo shamelessly stole in his "ChÃ¢timents", see fourth quote on this page)

Algot Runeman · Post by **Algot Runeman** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:37 pm

I have always felt that puns were a part of the development of complex language skills. It is a little like being able to translate poetry. Seeing, or more accurately, hearing and acknowledging the concurrence of sounds isn't easy.

Without being intentionally rude, but knowing some will take offense anyway, puns and wordplay in general may be an important part of language mastery. Some people with whom I converse regularly despise my use of even the most innocuous puns. Simultaneously, I have observed that these same people tend to describe things they like by saying "I liked that movie. It was really good!" Their verbal emphasis is shown by bold type here. The emphasis seems to take the place of more explanation or a rich vocabulary.

Shakespeare was writing plays to be enjoyed not only by the elite but for the masses, but he is typically acknowledged as having a magnificent vocabulary. And do we forget he was also a well respected poet?

Puns are no joke.
So if you don't laugh what does it mean?
If you groan, might it be, sometimes, in appreciation?
Have you ever groaned after the last bite of a delicious dinner?

Does a dinner roll (of the eyes...sorry couldn't resist) and a post repast groan link at all with a groan of reaction to a pun?

We generally think of play as the way children simulate and practice the skills they will need as adults. Word play is good in that context, helping children to learn more about their language than simply the basics. Maybe adults deprecate play because they have been taught to "grow up" over and over during especially the teen years. Maybe that squashing of play is a bigger loss to us than we realize.

Is there a doctoral thesis to be found in these meandering thoughts?---not one written by me, at least.

Post by **Darb** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:24 pm

Well said, Algot. Such word play is at the heart of our Word of the Day (WOTD) game thread down in The Quill and Fountain area.

Perhaps we should send the knave a silken glove, and invite him to THWAP himself with it ?

voralfred · Post by **voralfred** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:53 pm

Brad wrote: Perhaps we should send the knave a silken glove, and invite him to THWAP himself with it ?

the aforementioned knave wrote:â€œLord Mulgrave called to Burke one day at our table with a â€˜so, Burke, you riot in puns now Johnsonâ€™s away.â€™

OK, folks, so a little help for a poor non-english speaker?

Post by **Darb** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:50 pm

The smacking someone with a glove was a reference to old dueling protocols, in which one gentleman would remove their dress glove and smack their offender with it. If you did such a thing with your bare hand, it would instantly cause a fight, whereas doing it with a doffed glove was a challenge to a highly formalized duel, with sabers or pistols, seconds, and all the trimmings.

Sending the person a glove and telling them to smack themselves with it was just an elaborate whitticism on my part, implying further foolish fecklessness on theirs. The THWAP was an onomatopoia, evocative of the sound of getting slapped by the glove.

In any case, to my way of thinking, the ability to not just pun, but pun well, is linguistically analagous to verbal ballroom dancing. Those who cannot are doomed forever to be wallflowers ... or wallflours, if you've failed pizza training.

Post by **laurie** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:42 pm

To me, puns aren't a lower form of humor. I think they show a higher degree of creativity and ability to "think outside the box" of Oxford English Dictionary definitions for words.

In working with low IQ students over many years, I've noticed that rarely can they consciously create puns, though a few have inadvertently come up with something that strikes me as hilarious (and they are almost always clueless as to why I'm laughing).

To be a punster, one needs intelligence, a wide-ranging and flexible vocabulary, and enough creativity to "see" what others can't see in words.

Post by **KiltanneN** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:04 am

laurie wrote:In working with low IQ students over many years, I've noticed that rarely can they consciously create puns, though a few have inadvertently come up with something that strikes me as hilarious (and they are almost always clueless as to why I'm laughing).

Out of curiosity, would you be able to make this kind of comment in the staff room of your school - or would you be nervous about being hauled up for discrimination against intellectually challenged students?

voralfred · Post by **voralfred** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:14 am

laurie wrote: To be a punster, one needs intelligence, a wide-ranging and flexible vocabulary, and enough creativity to "see" what others can't see in words.

You just described my son.
Most of his puns are horrible, the "groan and roll your eyes" type, but he can make two-languages and even occasionally three-languages puns. Explaining some of them could take several minutes. He usually delights in our groans....
Poor boy, he has a terrible heredity: punsters both on his father's side (myself) and his mother's one (my brother-in-law, some kind of french clone of Brad's)

Brad: Thnaks for explaining your point (I did not realize THWAP was just meant as an onomatopeia, I was looking for a pun on tat word). Any clue to the "Johnson's away"?

Post by **laurie** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:42 am

KiltanneN wrote:
laurie wrote:In working with low IQ students over many years, I've noticed that rarely can they consciously create puns, though a few have inadvertently come up with something that strikes me as hilarious (and they are almost always clueless as to why I'm laughing).
Out of curiosity, would you be able to make this kind of comment in the staff room of your school - or would you be nervous about being hauled up for discrimination against intellectually challenged students?

I haven't worked in a school setting since 1980, and things have changed a lot since then. But one reason -- the big one -- I left classroom teaching for private tutoring was the ever-growing list of "do-this-but-don't-do-that" rules in the school where I worked.

As a young teacher, I would have been nervous about saying it, but with years of experience to back me up, I'd do it now. It's not discrimination in my book to speak the truth -- kids with low IQs don't learn at the same pace or in the same way as kids with high IQs. That's why they need the extra one-on-one help I provide as a private tutor.

But yes, speaking out about it has put me on a few teachers' sh*t lists.

Algot Runeman · Post by **Algot Runeman** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:13 am

Brad,
With your invite in sight, I'll seek some insight. I have knaver ventured into the realm of the fountain though I do carry my quill proudly. Don't waste the silken glove at your waist. I'll make haste to lurk and wile some hours while I glean the meaning of the scene and eventually, not post haste, will post in haste.

(I cahn't be sure, but have I chosen the correct Emoticon?)

umsolopagas · Post by **umsolopagas** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:16 am

laurie wrote:
To be a punster, one needs intelligence, a wide-ranging and flexible vocabulary, and enough creativity to "see" what others can't see in words.

In total agreement with that, but look now Algot's become all painfully punful. (eye-rolling begins here)

Algot Runeman · Post by **Algot Runeman** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:33 am

umsolopagas,

I can take it.
Dish out a plateful of punishment.

I eat criticism for lunch.
I eat cereal for supper.
I eat a bagel for breakfast.
Should I say it is food for thought? Probably not.

I shall now officially retract my punning powers in deference to the delicate sensibilities of the Reading Room crowd.

umsolopagas · Post by **umsolopagas** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:16 am

I bow in deference to your Power of the Pun.

Speaking of food, I entreat you not to put away your frying pan just yet, rumour has it that the Publishing Exponents Transposing Association Pun Awards are on the horizon and you are a shoo-in.

Post by **Darb** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:30 pm

Algot+Um: I've been the resident punster for the forum for some time.

Samples:

viewtopic.php?p=2243&highlight=smash+puny+punsters#2243

viewtopic.php?p=1808767&highlight=wobbled#1808767

umsolopagas · Post by **umsolopagas** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:23 pm

And forgotten you are not, oh Blessed One. I grovel at your displeasure

. Your puns as so littered with stories as to be unforgettable.

Post by **Darb** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:36 pm

I should warn you that in addition to being a punaholic, I'm also a recovering Evil Overlord ... stroke my ego at everyone else's dire peril.

Post by **PolarisDiB** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:12 am

Jeez. First John Knowles says sarcasm is the lowest form of humor, and then this guy says punning is the lowest form of humor. EVERYBODY gives dick and fart jokes... sh*t (teehee!). Half of my sense of humor is judged unworthy of a critical appreciation right there. Boo.

--PolarisDiB

CodeBlower · Post by **CodeBlower** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 am

umsolopagas · Post by **umsolopagas** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:23 am

Brad wrote:I should warn you that in addition to being a punaholic, I'm also a recovering Evil Overlord ... stroke my ego at everyone else's dire peril.

Coming to think of it, what have you done with the empress?

voralfred · Post by **voralfred** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:11 pm

Brad wrote:I should warn you that in addition to being a punaholic, I'm also a recovering Evil Overlord ... stroke my ego at everyone else's dire peril.

just two posts above.

But

In a different thread, Brad wrote:Ack ! Where are my manner ?! Yes, welcome aboard to all new members !

Codeblower: "Supreme Eminence" ? Aww cmon, CB .. I was just taking my pet ego out for a drag, a nostalgic yip or two, and a quick poop on the lawn. He's harmless, and long since lost all his teeth.

Whom should one beleive? Brad, or Brad?

CodeBlower · Post by **CodeBlower** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:14 am

You should never believe Brad as long as he has that mischevious grin on his face .. .. which, would be, pretty much all the time.

To do so, would be to risk a grammatical drive-by ..

Newsflash: CodeBlower pun'd down on busy street in broad daylight. Witnesses report hearing maniacal snickering as a cherry red convertible driven by the Evil Overlord cruised away from the scene.