Beverage: Beer (favorite brands & articles about)

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Darb
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Post by Darb »

Beaver wrote:I've never noticed any off flavors in the cans of their beer that I've had.

Have you seen that some breweries are introducing aluminum bottles? I know there's Big Sky in Montana (makers of Moose Drool), and one in PA I think. I guess the reasoning here is that you can use the same bottling lines and get some of the advantages of cans (those listed above, plus some places will allow you to bring aluminum in but not glass for security reasons).
I've been trained to notice, because I used to occasionally get involved with judging at brewing competitions. Plus I used to brew and edit the newsletter for a brewing club. I still brew occasionally, but the other 2 activities have fallen by the wayside in recent years. ;)

Havent seen any of the new aluminum bottles you mentioned. I've seen some plastic bottles, though ... and they problems with leeching of plasticizers as well as light protection.
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Post by Darb »

Ok, I read the beer selections at Oskar Blues:

* The "Old Chub", judging purely by it's description and photo, appears to be a wee bit too darkish to be a classic Scottish "Strong ale". As for the grains they list - chocolate and caramel malts are ok, if used within reason, but a noticeable amount of roasted malt is not stylistically authentic. Scottish ales are supposed to be malty, not roasty or bitter.

* Their IPA is also too dark, and 90 IBUs is a tad high, according to the standards I used to judge to.

The pale ale looked like the most stylistically authentic of their lineup.

In any case, these are just purely 'style labeling' comments. I cant really judge something properly unless I see/taste/smell it up close and in person. ;)
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Post by Beaver »

Brad wrote:Ok, I read the beer selections at Oskar Blues:

* The "Old Chub", judging purely by it's description and photo, appears to be a wee bit too darkish to be a classic Scottish "Strong ale". As for the grains they list - chocolate and caramel malts are ok, if used within reason, but a noticeable amount of roasted malt is not stylistically authentic. Scottish ales are supposed to be malty, not roasty or bitter.

* Their IPA is also too dark, and 90 IBUs is a tad high, according to the standards I used to judge to.

The pale ale looked like the most stylistically authentic of their lineup.

In any case, these are just purely 'style labeling' comments. I cant really judge something properly unless I see/taste/smell it up close and in person. ;)
From the notes I kept on the Old Chub, I did find it to have a bitter coffee-like finish that was a little out of place for a Scottish.

Their Gordon is actually an IIPA. I haven't had it yet, so not sure on the color. It does look quite dark in their pics. But the IBUs do fall in the BJCP guidelines for IIPAs:
http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category14.html#style14C

Beer is fun!
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Post by Darb »

Like I said, I havent judged (or competed) in a few years. Back in 1997, for instance, there was no American IPA category recognized by the AHA, and the English one capped out at 60 IBUs {which was a bit low}. Things have changed since then ;)

Totally agreed that beer is fun. :thumb:
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Post by Darb »

Ok, just for a change of pace, here's a copy of one of my old style presentation notes ... I used to give talks for my homebrewing club at our monthly meetings/dinners at an area brewpub. I think this one's probaby from sometime back in 1998.

I apologize in advance for the awkward formatting - these are just lecture notes, not an article per se, and MS Word formatting doesnt translate into phpBB very well. I have not edited or revised it since writing it back in 1998 - I'm posting it as is.

For those who are interested in such things, Enjoy.

[quote]Style Presentation: Biere de Garde (Northern French)

Backround Terminology:
  • “Biere de gardeâ€
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Post by Beaver »

Interesting. I've yet to have a Biere de Garde. So what's the difference between that and a Saison?
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Post by Darb »

That's actually a very good question.

The styles are closely related, but the most salient differences are generally as follows (if I remember correctly):
  • Country: BdG is French, Saison is Belgian.

    Flavor: BdG is a bit more malt-oriented with sur-lie yeasty overtones, whereas Saison is a bit more oriented towards fruity esters. Put another way, BdG is brewed with milder yeasts, and is bottle conditioned on the lees, which is a technique that imparts bread-like flavors that enhance the malt notes. Saison yeast strains produce more esters and/or are fermented slightly warmer to bring out those fruity notes. Saison is generaly less likely to be bottled sur lie (on the yeast) these days. Also, in terms of finish, Saison tends to be slightly more oriented towards a slightly lighter, crisper, and more refreshing profile than BdG - which hangs it's hat on elegant full flavored complexity, and long term cellaring. Lastly, Saison brewers sometimes reinforce the beer's fruity notes with subtle use of herbs and spices, like dried citrus peel and coriander ... but not to the same extent as in a more overtly spiced style like "Wit" (an assertively spiced Belgian Wheat beer). BdG rarely includes spices, and relies on it's Malt, Hops and Cellaring.

    Color: BdG can vary from golden to mahogany, whereas Saison is generally centered in the golden to golden-orange range of 'Pale' ales.
I think that pretty much covers it.

Havent had a Saison in a while myself.
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Post by Beaver »

Thanks for the info! It seems like saisons are becoming more popular. New Belgium has made a couple and Avery's 12th Anniversary beer is a saison.

I'll have to hunt for a BdG and try one sometime.
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Post by Darb »

BdGs can be a truly sublime experience ... provided you can find one that's been stored properly (and yes, that's a serendipitous & ironic reference to cellaring, and thus a play on the name of the style).

Lemme look around in my archive of old articles, so I can post a few tips on how to detect (before buying) evidence of poor handling/storage of beers bottles sur-lie style ...
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Post by Darb »

Ok, here's an article I wrote sometime back around in April 1998 ...

[quote="Brad"]Buying Vintage Beers

Ever spend a premium on a cork finished trappist ale, only to get it home & discover that it’s undrinkable ? Below are a few tips to help you identify the risk factors that greatly increase your chances of encountering poorly handled/stored beer. In general, always look for beer that’s been stored in a cool, dark place, away from fluctuating temperatures and fluorescent light.
  • Light: The ultraviolet radiation in sunlight (or fluorescent lights) causes beer to spoil quickly by interacting with the hop resins/acids in the beer. If you’ve ever opened a beer & gotten a gentle whiff of skunk, then that’s a sure sign it was light damaged. Beers bottled in clear glass (ex: “Newcastle Brown Aleâ€
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Post by Darb »

One of my homebrewing friends sent me this:

NY Lawmakers seek to create a "NY Beer Trail"

The material is copyrighted, so the link will have to suffice. Hopefully the link won't go dead/archived on us too soon.
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Post by Edgewood Eddie »

Here in New Mexico, we have a microbrew that's my all time favorite beer. It's called Black Cloud Porter. I've had Canadian friends, who came to visit, tell me it was terrific. I don't know what the availability is in the rest of the United States, but if you see it at your local beer vender, try it. You really won't be sorry.
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Post by Darb »

Cool.

What style porter is it ... classic English, or American ? (the most obvious difference between the two is the types of hops used)
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Post by Edgewood Eddie »

I'm not really sure. I'll probably buy a six-pack this weekend. They have a long dissertation on the label. I'll see if it mentions the type of hops being used.
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Post by freejazz »

Alright I'm not going to read though 5 pages of this

but to any Chimay drinkers in the house.

CHEERS!

Grande Réserve
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Post by Edgewood Eddie »

The label on the Black Cloud Porter mentions "Noble Hops". Would that make it an English or American porter?
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Post by tollbaby »

Eau Bénite :D
And what manner of jackassery must we put up with today? ~ Danae, Non Sequitur
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Post by Paladin »

I would suggest Pete's Wicked Ale, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or a domestic Samuel Adams Light.
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Post by Chili Jack »

You know how certain wines are suggested to be served with certain meals? I've always wondered if similar suggestions apply to beer. Does an ale go better with steak? Is a stout or a porter best with trout? Does anyone know of such a list? If one doesn't exist, I think it should.
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Post by Darb »

Chili Jack wrote:You know how certain wines are suggested to be served with certain meals? I've always wondered if similar suggestions apply to beer. Does an ale go better with steak? Is a stout or a porter best with trout? Does anyone know of such a list? If one doesn't exist, I think it should.
Welcome aboard. :mrgreen:

Such things exist, and have been written by many people over the years ... but I generally take them with a grain of salt. Beer follows the same general underpinnings behind wine pairings and matching musical instruments, meaning that you have 2 choices at any given time: you can either pair to compliment/enhance, or pair to counterpoint ... and of course all such choices are also tempered by the nuances of how things are cooked/seasoned, as well as one's personal flavor preferences.

So answer the specific items you mentioned, here's what I'd do:

STEAK: It depends how it's cooked. Assuming, for instance, you mean a steak grilled to crusty rare perfection over charcoal, you have the two choices mentioned above ... to compliment or counterpoint. To compliment the crusty savory char, you could pick a dry irish stout, schwarzbier (black lager), or porter - the roasty notes of the dark grains would pair with the crust. If the meat is naturally sweet, or has a semi-sweet marinade, you could pair the meat to that ... such as a more full bodied amber or brown ale or oktoberfest, which are less dry & less bitter than stouts. Alternately, you could counterpoint, and pick something to cut through all the strong flavors, and refresh the palate ... like a dry hoppy pilsner (my 1st choice), or a dry wheat beer. Going in a different direction - suppose you cubed the meat, browned it, and then stewed it in brown ale (i.e., flemish 'carbonade of beef') ... the natural pairing would be the brown ale you used to stew it (preferrably Trappist). And then there's pairing to the back-notes of dishes - I have, for instance, a moroccan lamb stew that's stewed with things like prunes, cinnamon, honey, and other spices ... flavors that would pair very well with Chimay Blue (a Trappist brown ale that has cinnamon-like phenols) or an authentic dopplebock (which has notes of caramel and pitted fruits).

TROUT: It depends how it's cooked. If, for instance, it's poached or steamed in parchment, I'd go with a light clean flavor - like pils, a dry lager, or a hefeweiss. If it's dryish and hot smoked (i.e., served with crackers and assorted cheeses or other smoked fish, I'd pick a more assertive beer that can stand up to the stronger flavors while also cutting though the lingering smokiness/saltiness/fat ... like a tart wheat, a geuze, or perhaps a complex/hoppy/semi-dry bottle-conditioned Farmhouse Ale (ex: Troi Monts), to also pair with the cheeses and bread.

You get the general idea ... as with wine, you have some very general recommendations to keep in mind, and then you're pretty much free to do whatever your palate likes and the dish demands.

Beer also has the advantage of being cheap ... so if you're having guests over, you can buy and chill several selections, taste one of each while you're cooking to identify the one that pairs best (and which is also in the freshest condition). You can also pre-screen beers in advance. For instance - I've already worked out wine pairings, by trial and error, for many of the recipes in my personal recipe log. I already know, for instance, that an excellent match for a guacamole is a NZ Sauvignon Blanc (the herbal and lime notes match well with the lime juice and cilantro in the guac). You can do the same with beer for your fave recipes all year long ... that way you already have a good idea what you pair the next time you make the dish.
Last edited by Darb on Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chili Jack »

You seem to know your stuff. The examples you gave were both great. I like your idea about trying the combo before hand. Do you think that beer is more seasonal than wine though? What I mean by that, is beer is more conducive to your environment than wine. For example; if it's cold, a heavier beer is more enjoyable. During the Summer a lighter beer seems best. Are wines like that too?
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Post by Darb »

Chili Jack wrote:Do you think that beer is more seasonal than wine though? What I mean by that, is beer is more conducive to your environment than wine. For example; if it's cold, a heavier beer is more enjoyable. During the Summer a lighter beer seems best. Are wines like that too?
Excellent question. I've given talks on seasonal brewing at some beer tastings I've run in the past.

I'm inclined to say 'yes' ... but only in general terms, and primarily when the beer is drunk by itself, rather than paired with food. Then again, because I also love to cook, and because I pay attention to seasonal variations in cuisine/produce (something that modern refrigeration and cheap transportation has dramatically muted the influence of), I'm more mindful and deliberate about such things than most.

So yes, in winter I'm more likely (but by no means compelled) to enter a bar and order a dopplebock, barleywine, winter ale, trappist ale, a full bodied brown ale (ex: pete's wicked), or an imperial stout, whereas in summer I'm more likely to order, say, a dry lager (ex: Stella Artois), a lighter brown ale (ex: newcastle), a cask-conditioned ale, a dry stout, or a wheat beer. The former are more for sipping and savoring, whereas the latter are more refreshing.

Pairing food usually (bot not always) tends to override that however. ;)

And yes, wine tends to follow the same general patters - in people who pay attention to, and work with, such tendencies. For instance ... I'm more likely to buy ports, PX sherry, sauterns, muscats, and late harvest reisling to pair with things like walnut-stuffed figs, stilton, and (for the latter) apple strudel or apple pie. In the summer, my consumption of white wine increases somewhat, and in the winter, my consumption of whites wanes somewhat in favor of reds and dessert wines and sparking wine.

So yes, it's a seasonal thing. ;)
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Post by Chili Jack »

Brad, I'm sorry if I'm picking your brain but I really find this very interesting. You obviously know waaaaay more about this than I, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it all.

My wife and I are having the family over for Easter. We're serving a traditional baked ham. Of course we will be almost three weeks into Spring. Some of my guest like wine for dinner, and some are devoted beer drinkers. Given the menu and the time of the year, What wine and beer would you suggest?
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Post by Darb »

Questions:

* Will the ham be of the pre-cooked, or freshly roasted (uncooked) from scratch, variety ? I assume the former.
* Will the ham be roasted simply, or given a sweet and/or savory glaze ? If the latter, what specific flavor(s), if any, are involved ? (ex: basic pinapple ?)
* Will the sides be mostly sweet, savory, or a mix of both ?
* Do you already know the dessert, and if so do you need a wine match ?

Assuming a simple pre-cooked ham (ex: spiral cut, light generic glaze), here's some choices to consider:

Wine: Reisling - either semi-dry, or dry. Also, you can rarely go wrong with a sparkling wine. Go with a sparkling muscat or asti if you want something semi-dry to match the glaze and things like sweet potatoes, or something extra dry or brut (sparkling chardonnay / blanc de blanc) if you'd rather just cut through it all and be cleansing and refreshing.

Cider: Fresh sweet cider is out of season, but you can get Hard Cider if you look around - preferrably something not too sweet. Strongbow, or Warwick Valley Cider {apple or pear} are both highly recommended.

Beer: As with champagne, a good clean crisp dry lager is a good all purpose choice ... like Stella Artois. German beers are very pig-friendly, so you can just as easily pick a german wheat (varieties abound), or a dortmunder (DAB), or a pils (either domestic or czech).

As for desserts - it depends on what you're serving. Give me a clue, and I'll be glad to help.
Last edited by Darb on Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chili Jack »

Bear with me now. Ham's my wife's department. I'm strictly chili in our kitchen.

It will be cooked from scratch.

I'm not sure what all goes into the glaze but I do know there's brow sugar, honey, pineapple and cherry.

The sides are mostly sweet.

Every Easter my wife serves the same dessert, strawberry shortcake. Would you suggest a wine to match?

Again, thanks! You have the patience of Job.
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