Tabletop RPG :: General Discussion

[MatrimK]

Lefthand_Thread,

For the most part most people will pick a road to walk down when they make their character. I think that the way the character acts or roleplays should dictate or give a hint to which power they lean toward or in some rare cases a balance of the two. I imagine most times they will have alot of points in either Order or Chaos and a few in the other (as most characters were a bit grey.) Though a few can be seen as pure black but not as pure white. Also to be stronger mages most will lean in one direction till later in the game.

I would like to hear what you think some of the special abilities should be (spell or otherwise) and maybe some requirements to learn or use them maybe?

Matrim

[MatrimK]

Kvetch,

After some thought I could definitely use the advantages/disadvantages list, even if I'm not sure I will use that sort of system. If not for that then I could just as easily use it for special abilities. This would be great as my next task is to start a special abilites list.

Also I would love to see your list of effects of being a mage (I had totally forgetten about Cerryl's headaches. ) Maybe sorted by White, Black, or Grey? And maybe to what advantages or disadvantages they would be linked to?

My friend and I should also be testing out a few weapons and armors soon, so I might have new info to post about combat. I hope to have a demo character sheet by the end of the month for anyone interested in looking at it.

Thanks for all the contributions so far and hopefully to come. My ideas have taken a different shape since I've read your posts. I think the system looks better and is more cohesive.

Matrim

[Kvetch]

I'll do what i can, asap.

I haven't read wellspring of chaos so I only skim read the previous posts so I cannot get into the discuyssion for a while. I'll order it of amazon as soon as I can.

Lore is a good word for the Occult skill. well done ECM

[MatrimK]

Is there a specific type of lore it should be or just plain lore?

[Echus Cthulhu Mythos]

IMO, I think lore would work sweet by itself. But for the purpose of spilting it; maybe folklore and orphic lore? With folklore being like stories, myths, knowledge etc and orphic lore being perception and understanding?

[MatrimK]

I was thinking today should I use an all around initiative roll... Or should I have actions you decide to do reduce your initiative. Such as give weapons a speed of attack or have heavier armor reduce their initiative roll.

Should there be only one initiative per combat or for each turn? If only once per combat would it still be feasible to have actions, weapons, and armor affect your speed each turn?

If anyone could help me with my new found confusion I'd appreciate it.

Matrim

[Echus Cthulhu Mythos]

I was thinking today should I use an all around initiative roll... Or should I have actions you decide to do reduce your initiative. Such as give weapons a speed of attack or have heavier armor reduce their initiative roll.
Matrim

If someone has heavy armour and a large weapon, such as an axe, they would lose the initiative to a dude with light armour and a fast weapon such as a knife. But if say the dude with axe was dexterous and whatever and they knife-person was a bit 'slow' that would also factor in determining an advantage.

How is initiative calculated? I suppose a character with high dexterity or wisdom would have a high initiative but if that character wore heavy weaponry that could lower it somewhat.


Yeah, I dunno.

[Kvetch]

I think the initiative should be controlled by the weight of armour etc. I am sorry that I can't contribute any ideas on this, but I had not even thought about initiative.

[MatrimK]

Okay I'm still a bit unsure, but after hearing some comments from here and my wife I've decided to take initiative out as a skill and just make it a static roll based on dexterity and wisdom (1d10 + DexMod + WisMod.) But still not sure if combat would just be to complicated or time consuming if you calculated in speed of actions, weapons, and armor.

Maybe initiative could be like how much time you have actions in a turn, taking away for armor. Then weapon or action speeds could be deducted til you could complete no more actions and the remainder would put you higher up on the initiave chart next turn? Now I'm just confusing myself...

Matrim

[Lefthand_Thread]

Where spells are concerned we have to remember that manipulating order/chaos forces is a lot of work. It also takes practice to master some of the techniques. I would think that working magic would have to have a cost , energy, manna, etc. to use. I also think that there should be some sort of random probablity set in so that inexperience with a technique can result in failure untill mastered.

Specific abilities should be defined at character setup and certain of them should be based on random as to wether the character possesses the ability. An example would be truth reading. In the Cyador books not all mages are able to truth read. (This particular ability may have to be tied in some way to or more heavily biased towards ordermages as it seems that all the order mages dealt with possess it.).

All mages will have the ability to sense order/chaos forces. These senses can be used to enhance other traits such as fighting, or crafts.

I would not consider scrying to be an ability that should be regulated like this as it seems that any of the white mages can scry but I would think that it is a purely chaotic skill. Order mages can use their skills to gain similar information depending on their specific order emphasis. (Riding the winds, casting their senses into the earth, etc.)

Shielding is a bit simpler. Any mage that works to earn the skill can use light bending shields however, only the chaos mages should be able to use the blurring shield due to its nature (aversion being counter to the nature of those called to order.)

There will of course need to be at least a few other skills; they just need to be decided upon.

** Note: Even for those who set their character up with a high degree of magic ability there needs to be a tie in to experience to use these abilities effectively. Creslin had played with the winds for many years before we actually meet him yet he was unskilled in the finer more subtle applications of his skills. All other main characters also had within them great latent power but had to learn to use it.

Now to address character life and longevity. Order mages can gain virtual imortality but it will need to be a skill they can learn or discover as part of an adventure and will need to be very difficult to learn. Chaos will burn out and die faster mages but should have to the option of trying to learn how to steal bodies balancing the time it will take to learn how to do such with the skill and power level needed to acheive such.

Druids as a character can be dealt with in the same fashion though I advise that Druid be a level that can be attained only after fighting and surviving the balance which should be a very difficult thing to do.

I hope that I have been able to help and that these ideas are coherent.

[MatrimK]

This is actually the area I'm supposed to working on next...

My idea to control what they can learn and how they can use it is to have skill requirements. Like for a gust wind you would need limited knowledge of meteorology but for weather alteration you might need near complete knowledge of this. So gust might require 2 ranks which only costs 3 experience, while weather alteration could require 5 which would cost 15 experience. That might not seem like such a big deal but I'm planning only to give a maximun of 6 xp a session (which would not be the only things gained.) I also plan to give some free points in the beginning but not allowing more than 2 or 3 ranks in the skills.

Also weather alteration would cost alot while gust could be done... maybe 2 or 3 times a day before exhaustion? Since the average energy would be 15 and the maximun 30 gust might cost 7 while weather alteration might require putting energy in an orderstaff and some of yours... maybe 40? Like I said I'm "supposed" to be working on this.

Thanks alot for the help, when I finally get back to work on this part it should be alot easier with everyones suggestions. Also does anyone know if there is a way I can post an attachment?

Matrim

[KiltanneN]

Also does anyone know if there is a way I can post an attachment?

Not possible right now - I assume you'd like to include a picture of some kind...

Email the picture to me [my email's on the front page], and I'll put it up in my images DIR where you can then link to it...

kilt

[Kvetch]

I have been thinking about magic - I don't think that prescribed 'spells' will work too well. I think a better way is to assign difficulties to each use of the o/c fields depending on how tired and/or untrained the mage is - therefore, use of spells would be self limiting, as using magic tires the mage

I would suggest giving people a fatigue points attribute, based on constitution, level and amount of recent activity (doing lots of exercise tends to increase your durability)

depending on how powerful the spell is, it drains more or less fatigue points. the number of fatigue points remaining effect your chance of sucess at casting a spell

Cont. in next post

[MatrimK]

Actually the way I designed the game there will be no levels or classes. I was hoping people won't go around saying I'm Kvorak 15th level Barbarian, or be restricted by multiclass systems. Also since recluse only has humans and the closest you get to monsters is some "dire" animals in Naclos The Great Forest. This way you can have a fighting mage, or bravo, or even pompous merchanter. It all depends on what skills you take. Your attributes will go up according to what skills you chose. And possibly the feats/special abilities/spells you can choose will depend on your skills.

As for fatigue I had thought of energy (the total of your mental attributes.) Not only to be used for spells but special attacks maybe. I always thought it was a bit silly in some games where you had to memorize spells as if you couldn't remember a spell you used every day. So if you used up all your energy you would pass out. Also if you had low energy or health I would expect you to roleplay near exhaustion or aches and pains, this would affect how I awarded xp for roleplaying.

So what do you think bad, good, or something better?

Matrim

[Kvetch]

No levels is a good idea, but might be a bit hard to manage - it's up to you though.

This is my magic system outline (I've been thinking hard):

to be a mage you have to take the ability at character creation (the downside is your total ability scores is reduced)

you gain more power as you use magic (you don't have to start using the magic for years if you want, and no big restrictions apply (you still get headaches in the rain, or dislike lying, but no aging or orderblindness)



as well as hitpoints, you have 'energy points' (AKA the fatigue points above) - they are based on your physical AND mental strength.

using magic reduces the energy points. so does fighting, illness, injuries etc.

if you have very few energy points you can't use the great magics (e.g. use the great winds). if you do use magic that would send your energy points under zero, you lose conciousness (and possibly die is you do something too powerful); there is also a chance the magic will fail.

rest restores energy points

using magic is by doing a specific thing, not by given spells. the GM the assigns an energy point cost to the feat. (hitting someone with the lowest winds would cost very few points; creating a storm to sink a fleet would cost stupidly large amounts of points) (our final game would of course include copious examples)

Using magic would cause fast aging in whites and possible order blindness in blacks

EXTENDED EXAMPLE:
Korvak, an order mage of no small repute has 30 energy points normally, but has lost 10 over the past few days, due to lack of rest and a fight with white guards. another white guard has caught up with him, and he wishes to try to lash her with ice. ICELASH has has a cost of 5 points. as he is not in actual combat, he need not make concentration checks, and succesfully uses his magic - the guard is rendered unconsious. Korvak flees with 25 energy points and blinding headache from the chaos he has caused.

several days later, after another encounter with the guards and little rest, he is on 3 energy points, and is forced to try and use his order powers to deflect an arrow fired at him by [yet another] white guard. LESSER WIND also costs five points, but using it would put him on -2 energy points, so he must make a check to finish the working. Korvak makes the check, and lashing winds deflect the arrow, but the expenditure of energy has caused him to lose conciousness.

despite his use of order not causing chaos he wakes with a headache, chained to a moving cart....



Good idea? improvements? shall I continue developing this?

If anyone wants to suggest complex rules that requires examples, please use one or more of the following people (or make your own up, if you require other abilities):
Korvak, order mage from Gallos
Tellen, chaos wizard of Fairhaven
Joranth, road guard and sometime bard
this will give a little continuity to delibereationd, and it might be interesting to see what happens to these people....


some of my terms I have got from the Towers of the Sunset. Expect a post soon that will give full details

[Kvetch]

I have now finished going through The Towers of the Sunset, collecting references to combat, trade, history and [importantly] magic.

this runs to ten pages of notes, so getting it up here may take some time but here is my first set: HISTORY

each note below contains the reference (x/y) where x is the page number and y the chapter (I include the chapter, as anyone who wants to check this needs the reference and probably has a different edition to me (my one is the orbit european/australasian edition)

dates are relative to NOW, the time at which most of the action in the book happens

see also here


Second Tyrant of Sarronyn crushed the Jerans. Her consort, Aldron, was the last consort to ride in battle. Aldron fell at Berlitos. Jera is now southern Sarronyn - Time: long ago(18/5)

White Wizards Crush Lydiar - duke killed. Wizards are building a new port city in the place of Lydiar - Time: NOW (26/7)

the Duke of Montgren holds Recluse by default after the Hamorians and Nordlans failed to make their colonies viable. (27/7)

Megarea is at least five years older than Creslin (44/9)

Westwind Guards destroyed 'Jerliall' [where? what?] two years ago from 'NOW' (86/21)

It is prophecised thet Fenard [N. Gallos] will not fall while the prefect fall while the prefect holds the keep [c.f. White Order/Colours of Chaos] (94/24). there is also a prophecy in the book of Ryba about it [details needed](101/24)

[Kvetch]

Two other points:

I am doing multiple posts to keep it comprehensible

I'm putting all this up because the RPG will require history and geographical data as well as rules.

[MatrimK]

Bravo Kvetch! Of course the mechanics are nothing without geography and history. I'm particularly interested in customs of the cultures by there area. The geography by time period is very pertinent to the game also.

Matrim

[Kvetch]

Now I've got us into the new forum, I'll make new threads about history and stuff, to avoide cluttering the rule mechanics of this thread

[netlyon2]

I have a question for Kvetch (or anyone who'd like to answer). Most or all of your reference posts have come from The Towers of the Sunset. Is that because you guys are using that time frame? If so, I'll go dust off my copy (I haven't read it in quite a while) so I can keep up. Would you prefer that input come from that book or from other times/books as well?

[Kvetch]

the reason all my references come from Towers of the Sunset is because that is the one that i have typed up my notes on - I have another set of handwritten notes for Fall of Angels, and have post-it note markers in The Chaos Balance, The White Order, The Order War and The Magic Engineer - the problem is that I can read faster than I type. over the next couple of months I hope to get all my notes into digital format, for the use of everyone, but the going is slow.

I intend to worh through all the books myself, but if you want to do the same, go ahead.

[netlyon2]

Kvetch

I have another set of handwritten notes for Fall of Angels, and have post-it note markers in The Chaos Balance, The White Order, The Order War and The Magic Engineer

Well, I've just started re-reading Magii of Cyador, so I guess I'll do something similar for that and Scion. My notes probably will not be nearly as exhaustive as yours, though. I certainly your efforts! (hee, hee. How cheesy was that?)

[Kvetch]

very cheesy.

As a matter of fact, I have actually got notes on every recluce book in existance with the exception of Magic, Death and Wellspring (because I don't own the first and third, and because I don't want to do Death of Chaos before Magic) - I just don't have them in a very usable form

if you post your notes first, I'll post those points I noted and you didn't, and If I post first and you have a set of notes, please post anything I missed.

that way a very high likelihood of getting everything in the books.

PS: I noticed that Biehl is on the wrong side of the river on the map (which means the descriptions don't quite match)

[biomekanic]

If you're wedded to the d20 system, have you thought about using the BESM point based engine? You'd use character xp to buy abilities, like oh, say... throwing fire, Order shields, etc.
If you're not tied to closely, GURPS might be the answer. 4th ED has a book in the works on Powers, sounds right up this alley.
Currently, I'm planning out a GURPS Recluse game set just after Cerryl becomes the head of the guild, with the PCs as students who've moved out of the creche.

[Kvetch]

To be honest, I think the best Idea is to AVOID d20.

tell us about your GURPS game (the one you are running, not GURPS itself)