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It was my understanding, that the Death of Chaos sort of sundered the Chaos/Order elements of the world and made it more or less, like Earth....

In which case...what happens to the Great Forest and the Druids?
Does the Great Forest...just become..normal? The druids....turn to dust?

The Great Forest is an ever-renewing thing... it will go on, although many of the creatures will have shortened lifespans and some will probably become extinct because their abilities depend on free chaos or order, both of which have essentially become non-existent. The older druids will indeed become dust, while those who were younger will respond in the same fashion as Lerris and Krystal.


L. E. Modesitt, Jr.

Awh, so Lerris..killed Nylan!

I knew he was a loser!

Its been a while since i have read "The Order War"

In it, when Justen gets to Naclos, he indeed meets some "Angels" or "Ancients"

One of them was Nylan? From "The Fall of Angels" and the "Chaos Balance?"

Never Mind, i have not looked hard enuff

lmodesitt wrote:I never specified who the ancient was that Justen goes to see, and I prefer not to say, because revealing a name changes the emphasis of the story.

As for the legend, Megaera [if I understand your question] is suggesting a legend, or story, behind the legend of Ryba and the founding of Westwind.


L. E. Modesitt, Jr.

!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spoiler Alert for "Order War"!!!!

Its been a while since i have read "The Order War"

In it, when Justen gets to Naclos, he indeed meets some "Angels" or "Ancients"

One of them was Nylan? From "The Fall of Angels" and the "Chaos Balance?"

Ok, I just finished reading "The Order War", in my mad pursuit to read every book in "Chronological" order, beside the latest additions with Karl as I just finished those before I started on this mad endeavor...and after finishing it, some of the mystery is unveiled but see, to me its even more mystifying as it makes one wonder what these characters DID all this time...Now for the spoilers--the ancient that Justen meets I am not sure whom they are but, the silver haired man he meets who plays the guitar is NOT Nylan, but rather Werlynn....who would be Nylan's great great great something or other times elevin grandson---Nylan's son, in "The Chaos Balance" by Istril--was named Weryl. (After his grandad or something to that effect).,....recall that Nylan ends up with Arylyn and you end up with a name that fits into both Nylan's son and Arylyn's name....Werylyn....and he was actually Creslin and Lyse's biological father. So, Justen meets him--Creslin's dad, who would have had to have been quite old by this point I mean...isn't the Order War taking place sometime around 400 years or so after Ceryl's time??? Crazy! I may have my Math wrong here but, suffice it to say that Werylyn, the great song singer, is very very old. But that's who Justen met. I don't think anyone knows who the "Ancient" angel was but wasn't it a "she" and not a "He"? I think we speculated it could be Arylyn or Saron or even Istril, had she left Westwind but we don't really know.....

Wow rushandscififan, I like your logic.

I believe I'm going to have to go back and reread all the books again when I get the oppertunity because I can't remember alot of the things that are mentioned here. But the parts I do remember will stay with me forever, or until something happens and I forget lol......

I wonder what ever happened to Creslin's Daughter i think it was.

It was said that he had only one daughter errr or son before he and Magaera died.

They had a daughter, and she had children. That's all that appears directly in the books.


L. E. Modesitt, Jr.

I remember that it mentions that Creslin and Magaera didn't wake up one day, but does it ever say how long they lived before that happened?

Emperor wrote:I remember that it mentions that Creslin and Magaera didn't wake up one day, but does it ever say how long they lived before that happened?

In The Order War one of the Naclans tells Justen that Werlynn's son(Creslin) died young. However, there is a of course the caveat that they judge lifespans differently in Naclos. Creslin could have lived a "typical" lifespan, and it would still have been considered short to them. I tend to think Creslin died young, after using his abilities to sink the ships assailing Recluce left his inner balance in turmoil, but not extremely young. He had a good number of years after we left him, in my opinion.

I think Rush has the situation figured out. I was thinking something like that, but just could not piece it all together.

THANKS RUSH!

Thanks Ravenseye, your answer puts some new light on things.

Also I like your nickname

rushandscififan wrote:...Werlynn....who would be Nylan's great great great something or other he was actually Creslin and Lyse's biological father. ....

Colors of White - Preface

"Under the spells and songs of Creslin, who descended from the black Nylan and the dark songmage Ayrlyn..."

Though it may not mean 'descended' in the familial sense.

It does. Creslin is a direct descendent of Nylan and Ayrlyn.


L. E. Modesitt, Jr.

lmodesitt wrote:It does. Creslin is a direct descendent of Nylan and Ayrlyn.

While the deductions- mine and others - seemed reasonable and rational, I haden't realised it had been stated as fact in any of the stories - apart from that mention in Colors of White.
Though I have noticed over many rereads how I sometimes miss the obvious.

Gollum

did you mean the Colors of Chaos or the White Order?

Emperor wrote:did you mean the Colors of Chaos or the White Order?

Colors of White
Manual of the Guild at Fairhaven - Preface // Part Two

Sorry thats totally my bad.....I thought you were making reference to a novel.....
let me hang my head in shame there

Yeah I thought that too about Werlynn. My guess for the other anceint would be Arlyyn. Makes sense to me as we know Nylan and her went to the forest and that they'd learn the 'trick' taught to Justin on how to prolong their life.

rushandscififan wrote:!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spoiler Alert for "Order War"!!!!

Its been a while since i have read "The Order War"

In it, when Justen gets to Naclos, he indeed meets some "Angels" or "Ancients"

One of them was Nylan? From "The Fall of Angels" and the "Chaos Balance?"

Ok, I just finished reading "The Order War", in my mad pursuit to read every book in "Chronological" order, beside the latest additions with Karl as I just finished those before I started on this mad endeavor...and after finishing it, some of the mystery is unveiled but see, to me its even more mystifying as it makes one wonder what these characters DID all this time...Now for the spoilers--the ancient that Justen meets I am not sure whom they are but, the silver haired man he meets who plays the guitar is NOT Nylan, but rather Werlynn....who would be Nylan's great great great something or other times elevin grandson---Nylan's son, in "The Chaos Balance" by Istril--was named Weryl. (After his grandad or something to that effect).,....recall that Nylan ends up with Arylyn and you end up with a name that fits into both Nylan's son and Arylyn's name....Werylyn....and he was actually Creslin and Lyse's biological father. So, Justen meets him--Creslin's dad, who would have had to have been quite old by this point I mean...isn't the Order War taking place sometime around 400 years or so after Ceryl's time??? Crazy! I may have my Math wrong here but, suffice it to say that Werylyn, the great song singer, is very very old. But that's who Justen met. I don't think anyone knows who the "Ancient" angel was but wasn't it a "she" and not a "He"? I think we speculated it could be Arylyn or Saron or even Istril, had she left Westwind but we don't really know.....

Not that this is anything more than my theory, but I always kind of felt the impression that from Nylan to Lerris we were looking at one long singular blood line.

It never said this, but I always had that feeling.

Creslin is descended from Nylan, on both sides of the family (Nylan and Arlyn's children (as the author said) and from Nylan and Ryba's daughter).

When Dorrin discusses Creslin's children, he brings it up because it's specifically mentioned that he would know better. Then he mentions they have a daughter who grew up to have children, and he pretty much drops it. I always kind of got the feeling he was Creslin's great great something or other greats grandson.

I also got the feeling that Justin can trace back to Dorrin (There's no evidence for this, just my theory based on similar hair, personality and the feel of the story). And we know Lerris is Gunnar's child.

Could be way offline here, but was always my thoughts on the matter.

Course I also assumed Werryl was Werlyn which is apparantly incorrect if Creslin's descended from Nylan and Arlyn.

I love this thread and come back to reread it often ... in doing so today I realized that this is probably where LEM could easily create a few new books without greatly affecting the other story lines. By 'easily' I in no way imply these stories are easy to write, but rather that - much as we see both sides of the story in different books through the eyes of Cerryl and our favorite smith there could be the same type of 'alternate view' from the Druids that would span almost the entire lifespan of the series ...

... even back to the days of Lorn. Which brings me to one of my other conjectures. I don't believe for a second that Lorn - who spent so much time working with and around the forest, simply left it at that at the end of the story . He has deduced so much about the forest and learned there is so much more to be understood to the point that for him to simply drop this avenue of learning because he gets a new job - so to speak.

Granted I've always wanted more and more of the Recluse stories - probably very unfair of me since LEM's other works are arguably as good - but the Druids and the Great Forest IMHO hold many tales that should be told.

-Doc

DocKurtz wrote:.. .. 'alternate view' from the Druids that would span almost the entire lifespan of the series ...

Doc, I like how you think ...

((jumps up from the keyboard and runs outside to spot the first star and make a wish))

Moderator Note: The discussion on Family Trees and casts of characters was split out to this thread at the suggestion of CodeBlower.

THANKS RUSH!

Welcome! This thread is interesting...going to re-read some of it now. I too have wondered if they are all from one blood line, what with the "smithing" abilities showing up from time to time and Justen (I think now I've decided my fave character really) being an engineer kind of like Nylan was. Very cool.