Arms-Commander

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CodeBlower
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Re: Royalties

Post by CodeBlower »

lmodesitt wrote:The second is U.S. editions sold to foreign distributors, in which case I only get about half what I do for a U.S. sale, but that's often more than I get from foreign sales.
So, is there any incentive to distribute the books worldwide?

I could see there being a larger cost involved .. but, after reading the comments of folks who live other places about what they have to spend to get books, I'm wondering why you get penalized as well.
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Re: Royalties

Post by nperry »

CodeBlower wrote:
lmodesitt wrote:The second is U.S. editions sold to foreign distributors, in which case I only get about half what I do for a U.S. sale, but that's often more than I get from foreign sales.
So, is there any incentive to distribute the books worldwide?
Additional sales at a lower profit is still more profit.
I could see there being a larger cost involved .. but, after reading the comments of folks who live other places about what they have to spend to get books, I'm wondering why you get penalized as well.
It's not so much that the author is penalized as it's a smaller amount of profit to the publisher for the author to get a cut of. A book of Mr. Modesitt's sold through a foreign distributor may cost a customer at a British retailer (for example) more than it does an American customer who walks into a Borders and buys one, but that extra cost reflects the distributor's expense and profit as well as the cost of shipping.
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Post by CodeBlower »

I guess I was assuming that Mr. Modesitt would have to contribute more effort in order for the books to go outside the United States.

My question, then, was whether or not the increased effort was worth the lower rate-of-return for foreign sales.

I'm guessing the extra effort would be expended in trying to get the publisher to move outside of their "comfort zone" -- obviously he doesn't have to add chapters to the books or anything.

If there's no additional effort involved, then it's simply a question of: Does the reduced revenue for foreign sales negatively affect future contract-negotiations for domestic sales?


In the end, maybe our differing viewpoints on whether or not this is a "penalty" come down to a question of how the income is perceived.

Obviously, if Mr. Modesitt pours himself into a book and it sells one copy, it would be difficult to call that a financial success.

The income from foreign sales seems to be viewed as "found money".

For me -- if I were used to selling books at $1 each -- if someone showed up and said we could sell them in the next county for $0.50 a piece, I think I would graciously decline.
"Budge up, yeh great lump." -- Hagrid, HP:SS
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The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
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Post by nperry »

CodeBlower wrote:I guess I was assuming that Mr. Modesitt would have to contribute more effort in order for the books to go outside the United States.
How so? He's not the one translating it, and I presume they aren't asking him to rewrite it. Unless they actually send him on an international tour, I'm not sure what effort he'd be undertaking.
My question, then, was whether or not the increased effort was worth the lower rate-of-return for foreign sales.

I'm guessing the extra effort would be expended in trying to get the publisher to move outside of their "comfort zone" -- obviously he doesn't have to add chapters to the books or anything.
This is speculation, of course, but I'm doubting he's the impetus behind it, rather the publisher is doing it for the greater profits. The per-unit profit on a foreign sale might be lower, but the absolute profit is greater, as there's really no downside to selling more copies to other markets.
For me -- if I were used to selling books at $1 each -- if someone showed up and said we could sell them in the next county for $0.50 a piece, I think I would graciously decline.
Presuming that the fifty cents is pure profit, as the royalty is to Mr. Modesitt, why? You're not going to be selling fewer $1 books in this country, and given that the foreign distributor and seller and undertaking a significant portion of the effort to sell the book, splitting the profit on the joint venture doesn't seem unreasonable.
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Post by lmodesitt »

Most of the "foreign" sales of U.S.-printed books [sorry, if I didn't make this clear] are in Canada, the U.K., and Australia, and these are at the lower royalty rate. The reason for the U.K and Australia sales as foreign, rather than "British rights" is because no British firm wants to reprint my new books there, and hasn't for almost 10 years..

Sales to countries where translation and/or reprinting is required are negotiated on a country-by-country basis. In one case, my total royalty [admittedly for a old book in a very small country] was not quite $400.


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Post by CodeBlower »

Did you get to decide if the $400 was "worth it" .. or did the publisher do that for you?
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The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by lmodesitt »

The publisher made that decision.


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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by torybear »

I seem to recall sometime ago that you shared with us that essentially you make what you would have made if you remained a proffessional in your other careers (perhaps not lifeguard :)). That having been said, I must admit that I have always been taken aback by that. A tangential question, which of your portfolio was your "best-selling" book. I ask because every once and awhile when the ravages of time...or my tendency to lend books in the futile hope that they will be returned...requires a book to be replaced I am often intrigued by what i see available on shelves and what I have to hunt for.
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by lmodesitt »

At this point, The Magic of Recluce remains the single best-selling book, but much of that may simply be because it's the fantasy that's been in print the longest. My weakest-stelling fantasies still outsell my strongest SF titles by a significant margin.


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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by DaveA »

I'm intrigued (& a bit perturbed) by your remark that your weakest fantasy outsells your strongest SF!

Is this because your fantasies tend to be in series as opposed to your (mainly) stand-alone SF or could it be that retailers are taking the easy way out and only stocking series, and your publishers are less willing to reprint the SF? I'd hazard a guess that it is the latter as I have noticed how hard it is to find your SF a few months after it is released.

This really bugs me as it means I have to lend my own copies of Adiamante, The Eternity Artifact and Archform:Beauty to friends rather than letting them purchase their own copies!!

So, although I haved really loved the last 4 Recluce books, please don't stop writing the SF!!!

Dave

ps I've just got back on-line after a few days away. What's with the new forum format??? I'm not sure that I think it is an improvement!!
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by torybear »

I can't say I prefer the sci-fi...but I tend to re-read it more often. I had to hunt for Octagonal Raven for longer than I like to admit, and finally gave in a ordered the second of the Ecolitan books again...I can't quite understand why I could never find it in the store.
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by CodeBlower »

Even as much as I enjoy your fantasy books, I'm with the others on this ..
"Budge up, yeh great lump." -- Hagrid, HP:SS
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The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by MidasKnight »

My personal opinion mirrors Mr. Modesitt's sales. My least favorite of his fantasy books (Cyador) still rank higher than my favorite of his Sci-Fi books.

I am CERTAIN that has everything to do with personal taste and not the quality of the work.
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Re:

Post by Lord Robertus »

lmodesitt wrote:Most of the "foreign" sales of U.S.-printed books [sorry, if I didn't make this clear] are in Canada, the U.K., and Australia, and these are at the lower royalty rate. The reason for the U.K and Australia sales as foreign, rather than "British rights" is because no British firm wants to reprint my new books there, and hasn't for almost 10 years..


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Which is a damn shame for us British fans, though some of the book chains here do have copies of your work imported from the States
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by book junkie »

lmodesitt wrote:At this point, The Magic of Recluce remains the single best-selling book, but much of that may simply be because it's the fantasy that's been in print the longest. My weakest-stelling fantasies still outsell my strongest SF titles by a significant margin.


L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
Hmm... well when I went to my local barnes and nobles store a few days ago, the only SF book I saw in your section was the eternity artifact, and the other 8-11 books were all fantasy, most of it recluce. I was thinking about possibly getting one of your SF books, which is why I noticed. Instead I bought viewpoints critical and arms-commander.

I thought Arms-Commander was well done, and really enjoyed reading through it these last two days. I noticed earlier you said you weren't exactly planning on making this a 2 book story. I just want to let you know if you did continue Saryn's story I'd be interested in buying the next book, same goes for Lorn the Mighty.

Anyways I hope you had a happy New Year and would like to thank you for satisfying my continuing demand for good books.
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by DaveA »

Hi Book junkie,

Do yourself a favour & go back and buy The Eternity Artifact. It is sensational!!

Dave
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Re: Royalties

Post by talisein »

Mr Modesitt,
You mentioned hard- and softcover books, but what about digital? I got the Kindle edition of Arms Commander to save myself some shelfspace, but it'd be nice to be sure you're getting your full due.
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by DaveA »

I'd be interested in knowing that also.

I'm about to take the digital plunge myself. Much as I love the look & feel of books, I need a better way of coping with my addiction when I travel. My last 4 week trip to Europe had me carrying a dozen books (and buying several paperbacks en route as well). I'm getting too old to carry the weight of books I need to see me through the trip. :lol:

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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by lmodesitt »

Kindle and E-Book rights are about twice paperback royalties [in cash terms] and around half the hardcover royalties [unless the hardcover sells well, in which case, the E-Book royalties are an even lower percentage].

Those are general comparisons; they'll vary by book because the E-Book prices vary more than the hardcover and paperback prices do.


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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by DaveA »

Ouch!!!!

I suspect my E-Book library will be old favourites for re-reading then rather than the latest Hardcovers.

That's quite nasty about the better the Hardcover sells, the less the author gets for the E-Book version.
In my naive way, I'd sort of thought that the better a book did, the better the royalties were!

Is this a negotiable arrangement or simply an edict from above? (please ignore if this is getting too much into your business)

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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by lmodesitt »

Theoretically, everything is "negotiable," but in practice some terms are difficult to change, particularly on the higher end of the royalty scale.

By the way, it's not so much that the E-Book rates decline with a best-seller; it's that they don't increase because the volume's not there, while it is with a hardcover.


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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by nb52 »

This thread has gone at a slight tangent from the original subject which was a discussion about Arms Commander, but at the risk of de-railing it further, I am puzzled by something which is linked to the most recent posts: namely e-books.

There is an interesting article written recently in Publishers Weekly here:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6657272.html

Basically, what it is saying is that at the moment, Amazon are actually losing money on Kindle e-books as publishers are charging them the same amount as printed books. There is speculation as to why Amazon are doing this with the most likely answer being a price war with other e-book suppliers or that Amazon are trying to build up market share.

However, what I am asking is why are publishers charging so much for e-books since basically, there are no printing, manufacturing, shipping or handling costs? This is briefly addressed at the end of the article: publishers are saying printing etc. is only a fraction of the costs involved in producing a book yet from what Mr. Modesitt says, certainly his royalties are not greater from an e-book than from a printed one.

My reason for asking is that I am interesting in e-book readers but not while the selection of books is so small. For example, John Scalzi, a fairly well- known author, does not have any of his science fiction books on Kindle. Even Mr. Modesitt does not have all of his books on Kindle nor on Fictionwise.com.

Surely, e-books would grow the market or am I missing the obvious and it is because publishers fear that e-books would end traditional publishing? Would it also not be a great way to re-introduce OOP books back into the market?

Oh, and I did get a copy of Arms Commander in hardback form, though I have yet to read it.
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by lmodesitt »

Some of these questions, I just don't know enough to answer, but I can say that literally my best-selling e-book titles amount to less than 1% of the total number of copies of that book. I've also been told repeatedly when I've pressed for more of my books to appear in e-book format that so few copies are sold, comparatively,that despite not having to pay for paper, MacMillan loses money on e-books because they still have to be distributed and sold and records kept, etc. Very few in the industry doubt that at some time e-books will become a significant sales component, but, from almost everyone's balance sheet, from what I've heard, it's not going to happen for a while.

Part of the problem is simply that, as others have pointed out, there's no compatible e-book format that can be read on all e-book readers, and until that happens, I don't think most publishers are going to push e-books across the board.


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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by nb52 »

Mr. Modesitt, first of all thank you for the reply and information.

Second, I am frankly amazed at the numbers you quote. I had no idea that the disparity between traditional sales and e-book sales was so great. It seems that electronic sales have made no impact whatsoever in the market at this time.

So, even with some variation across the board, I was missing the obvious. Even without the material costs involved in producing paper books, administration costs of various types are incurred which means that with that sort of disparity, in the case of e-books, outgoings must be greater than incoming revenue.

It looks as if I am going to be deferring that e-reader purchase for quite some time.
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Re: Arms-Commander

Post by elenion »

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, I finally got my copy of Arms-Commander this week and thoroughly enjoyed it - great and compelling story. It was nice to see a different perspective within the Recluce Saga, and it was doubly nice how well it tied in with all the other books - not just Fall of Angels and Chaos Balance, but the others as well. I was a little disappointed
Spoiler: show
that Saryn didn't have the official "Tyrant" title at the end, but it was definitely strongly hinted at, so it wasn't too significant.
I hope this won't be the last book we see in the Recluce universe - even if there isn't a direct sequel to Arms-Commander (which I'd certainly welcome), there are still plenty of other stories out there waiting to be told.

So thanks again, Mr. Modesitt, for another great chapter in the Recluce universe!
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