Culinary Pet Peeves
Moderator: Darb
Neat.
However, I'm not so much complaining about stories not focusing more on food so much as I am on authors who either arent able, or who are unwilling, to discuss it AT ALL, in any meaningful degree ... even if doing so would be logical and unavoidable ... particularly when the main characters travel to foreign lands, and are immersed in languages and customs that are strange.
Food is an inescapable part of daily life, and it's sad to see writers give it the same kind of near-invisibility that they give bathroom breaks ... they treat food almost as an unwanted intrusion, rather than an enriching and essential part of the daily advernture of being alive. :rolleyes:
For a writer to spend so much effort describing foreign lands (culture, language, modes of dress, religions, etc.) and to wholly and completely ignore food ... or worse still, to portray it the same everywhere, regardless of culture, climate and season, isn't just unrealistic and disappointing - it's downright pitiful.
I'm not expecting something like Anthony Bourdain's "A Cook's Tour" ... but a modest dose of reality would be very welcome, and is sadly often lacking.
For example - I'm grateful that Frank Herbert went to the trouble to introduce a few peeks into "spice cuisine" (spice beer, spice cakes, etc.) in his Dune cycle ... doing so helped to flesh out the reader's view of daily Fremen life and gave extra peeks into their culture. More authors should do the same.
However, I'm not so much complaining about stories not focusing more on food so much as I am on authors who either arent able, or who are unwilling, to discuss it AT ALL, in any meaningful degree ... even if doing so would be logical and unavoidable ... particularly when the main characters travel to foreign lands, and are immersed in languages and customs that are strange.
Food is an inescapable part of daily life, and it's sad to see writers give it the same kind of near-invisibility that they give bathroom breaks ... they treat food almost as an unwanted intrusion, rather than an enriching and essential part of the daily advernture of being alive. :rolleyes:
For a writer to spend so much effort describing foreign lands (culture, language, modes of dress, religions, etc.) and to wholly and completely ignore food ... or worse still, to portray it the same everywhere, regardless of culture, climate and season, isn't just unrealistic and disappointing - it's downright pitiful.
I'm not expecting something like Anthony Bourdain's "A Cook's Tour" ... but a modest dose of reality would be very welcome, and is sadly often lacking.
For example - I'm grateful that Frank Herbert went to the trouble to introduce a few peeks into "spice cuisine" (spice beer, spice cakes, etc.) in his Dune cycle ... doing so helped to flesh out the reader's view of daily Fremen life and gave extra peeks into their culture. More authors should do the same.
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spiphany
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I knew what you meant. There's a similar issue, actually, with the treatment of language in science fiction, where it is generally completely ignored (along with many other cultural aspects). Although food does seem to be given even less attention than architecture, dress, etc. It's not spectacular enough to be given much attention maybe?
It's significantly easier to pick up and/or invent a basic smattering of foreign cuisine than it is to pick up and/or invent foreign Languages (names, phrases, etc).
It needed a professional philologist like JRRT to be able to hone the expert and well-polished linguistic touches present in TLOTR & Silmarillion, and his huge body of letters and notes ... but I can easily spend spend a few short hours writing a few short pages outlining the geography, climate, and basic seasonal cuisines of an entire fictional world. Food's easier than language, by far. I've done it as a game master, and I could do it as a writer too. Unlike language, outlining climate and cuisine doesn't take that much time and effort ... and it yeilds a big return on the time invested.
It needed a professional philologist like JRRT to be able to hone the expert and well-polished linguistic touches present in TLOTR & Silmarillion, and his huge body of letters and notes ... but I can easily spend spend a few short hours writing a few short pages outlining the geography, climate, and basic seasonal cuisines of an entire fictional world. Food's easier than language, by far. I've done it as a game master, and I could do it as a writer too. Unlike language, outlining climate and cuisine doesn't take that much time and effort ... and it yeilds a big return on the time invested.
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mccormack44
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I'm just not sure you're correct on how easy it is to invent cuisine.
I grew up in a family where only my mother's sister was really interested in cooking; other family members on both my mother's side and my father's side prepared a few standard dishes and forgot the rest. The food they did prepare was good, but they showed NO imagination.
My aunt and a neighbor who catered for a living almost had to force mother to try a new dish, even though she often raved about the dish afterwards.
I learned to cook from Aunt Olive and Mrs. Taggert, I collect cookbooks, and am willing to try out and learn more. My children are more inventive than the older generation, but they come to me for new ideas. I suspect this lack of adventure is very, very common to food providers in general.
My point is that if culinary imagination is that hard for people using familiar foods, it surely is much harder to invent new cuisines.
Sue
I grew up in a family where only my mother's sister was really interested in cooking; other family members on both my mother's side and my father's side prepared a few standard dishes and forgot the rest. The food they did prepare was good, but they showed NO imagination.
My aunt and a neighbor who catered for a living almost had to force mother to try a new dish, even though she often raved about the dish afterwards.
I learned to cook from Aunt Olive and Mrs. Taggert, I collect cookbooks, and am willing to try out and learn more. My children are more inventive than the older generation, but they come to me for new ideas. I suspect this lack of adventure is very, very common to food providers in general.
My point is that if culinary imagination is that hard for people using familiar foods, it surely is much harder to invent new cuisines.
Sue
Ah, but authors don't *have* to invent recipes per se ... they can talk in vague terms like "spicy lamb", without having to elaborate (unless they want to) about what spices go into it ... or say "warm flat bread", without having to say if it was cooked in a kiln, or on a hot iron plate, or if the dough was made with water, or milk, or yogurt, or some special type of flour, or if it was drizzled with melted butter or some herb-infused oil.
As a writer, you can paint your story with lightly detailed suggestive strokes (with the details filled in by the reader's imagination ... like an impressionist painting), or with heavily slathered highly detailed descriptions.
So, suggesting cuisine is not the same as telling the reader how to make the dishes, in fine detail.
Case in point - JRRT gave some minimal description of Lembras in a few places, but gave no meaningful detail on how to make it. He didn't need to ... he provided just enough detail for the moment. Ditto for the honey cakes of the Beornings in The Hobbit. For all I know, JRRT couldn't bake honey cakes to save his life ... but he knew enough to describe, in light terms, how they taste, and he succeded in evoking the experience for his readers - and that's all that matters.
As a writer, you can paint your story with lightly detailed suggestive strokes (with the details filled in by the reader's imagination ... like an impressionist painting), or with heavily slathered highly detailed descriptions.
So, suggesting cuisine is not the same as telling the reader how to make the dishes, in fine detail.
Case in point - JRRT gave some minimal description of Lembras in a few places, but gave no meaningful detail on how to make it. He didn't need to ... he provided just enough detail for the moment. Ditto for the honey cakes of the Beornings in The Hobbit. For all I know, JRRT couldn't bake honey cakes to save his life ... but he knew enough to describe, in light terms, how they taste, and he succeded in evoking the experience for his readers - and that's all that matters.
Last edited by Darb on Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
I got a couple of pet peeves I want to share.
Ever notice on food shows that the chefs always try to make fancy,exotic foods. Its as if their always trying to out do each other. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But they always make dishes that has at least one ingredient that is hard to find and you can't get at the store! Why can't they just make great food with simple ingredients! I am convinced that if there was just a basic cooking showing or book with just basic simple foods , it would do well.
Why is it that hot dogs come in packs of 10 and hotdog buns come in packs of 8? Then you have to buy an extra pack of buns. This must be some sort of conspiracy of the hotdog bun companies. It is so the companies can get your money!
Ever notice on food shows that the chefs always try to make fancy,exotic foods. Its as if their always trying to out do each other. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But they always make dishes that has at least one ingredient that is hard to find and you can't get at the store! Why can't they just make great food with simple ingredients! I am convinced that if there was just a basic cooking showing or book with just basic simple foods , it would do well.
Why is it that hot dogs come in packs of 10 and hotdog buns come in packs of 8? Then you have to buy an extra pack of buns. This must be some sort of conspiracy of the hotdog bun companies. It is so the companies can get your money!
The trick with fancy hard-to-find ingredients is to study them, even if you dont have easy access to them ... that way you have a ready repotoire of substitutions or alternatives you can use, in order to do a recipe that calls for something you don't have. Sometimes you can make the missing item from scratch, and other times you have to substitute for it with something that plays the same role.
[Morpheus matrix voiceover mode]
If you learn the rules, you can also learn how & when they can be bent ... or broken entirely.
[/Mode]
For example ... if you're making an asian sesame sauce, and you don't have tahini and gourmet honey, you can get the same general effect by diluting smooth peanut butter with a little water and corn syrup. If you dont have peanut butter, you can move the whole process from a bowl and whisk format to a food processor, and whiz some unsalted nuts with peanut oil, before adding the other ingredients (although you might have to make more than you want in order for a food processor to get a decent foothold on it ... and also be advised that it takes a lot of processing to get it smooth).
You get the general idea.
[Morpheus matrix voiceover mode]
If you learn the rules, you can also learn how & when they can be bent ... or broken entirely.
[/Mode]
For example ... if you're making an asian sesame sauce, and you don't have tahini and gourmet honey, you can get the same general effect by diluting smooth peanut butter with a little water and corn syrup. If you dont have peanut butter, you can move the whole process from a bowl and whisk format to a food processor, and whiz some unsalted nuts with peanut oil, before adding the other ingredients (although you might have to make more than you want in order for a food processor to get a decent foothold on it ... and also be advised that it takes a lot of processing to get it smooth).
You get the general idea.
Last edited by Darb on Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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wolfspirit
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Around here, all buns are in packs of 8, and hot dogs are in packs of 8 (unless you get super-mango family size packs of eleventy billion).Paladin wrote:Why is it that hot dogs come in packs of 10 and hotdog buns come in packs of 8? Then you have to buy an extra pack of buns. This must be some sort of conspiracy of the hotdog bun companies. It is so the companies can get your money!
wolfspirit
If you buy the bun length hot dogs (not the normal short ones) they come eight in a pack.Paladin wrote:Ah wolfspirit,..look again. i will bet you are mistaken.
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tollbaby
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Hm. where I live, you can get hotdog buns in packages of 8 or 12 (hot dogs also come in packages of 8 and 12, the 8s being slightly larger) and you can get panini rolls (sausage buns) in packages of 6.wolfspirit wrote:Around here, all buns are in packs of 8, and hot dogs are in packs of 8 (unless you get super-mango family size packs of eleventy billion).Paladin wrote:Why is it that hot dogs come in packs of 10 and hotdog buns come in packs of 8? Then you have to buy an extra pack of buns. This must be some sort of conspiracy of the hotdog bun companies. It is so the companies can get your money!
wolfspirit
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Ok, a few more new pet peeves:
Bowls of Soup that Aren't:
I hate it when I order a bowl of soup, only to have a bowl arrive arrive that's as wide as the mojave desert, and about as shallow as a heat shimmer on hot pavement. They do that to make it look like more soup than it really is, while ripping you off. Also, if you serve soup that way, not only does the waiter have to walk slow to avoid spilling it, not only does the diner have to tilt the bowl to actually get the lip of their spoon below the surface, the soup also gets cold faster than a Witch's tit in December. IMNSHO, a "cup" should be exactly that ... 8 fl oz, and a bowl should hold at least 1.5 - 2x that (i.e., 12-16 oz) ... and by "bowl" I mean a real honest to God BOWL, not a dinner plate pretending to be one.
I've actually been in restaurants in which the "bowl" (and I use the term loosely) held exactly the same, or slighly less, than the "cup" portion.
Stuffed items that aren't, in fact, stuffed:
This happened today, at lunch, and I'm eating it as I type this. I selected a stuffed pork chop in the cafeteria, and sure enough, it was a whole pork chop that was just lazily piled atop a small blob of stuffing. Um, hello ? It's ok to do that with, say, a thin fish fillet, like flounder ... but a pork chop is *supposed* to have a pocket cut inside it, and be stuffed. Ditto for stuffed chicken breast. Ditto for breast of veal. "Stuffing" something is supposed to mean stuffing something ... not giving it the "slop and drop" treatment, with an ice cream scooper and a pair of tongs.
Bowls of Soup that Aren't:
I hate it when I order a bowl of soup, only to have a bowl arrive arrive that's as wide as the mojave desert, and about as shallow as a heat shimmer on hot pavement. They do that to make it look like more soup than it really is, while ripping you off. Also, if you serve soup that way, not only does the waiter have to walk slow to avoid spilling it, not only does the diner have to tilt the bowl to actually get the lip of their spoon below the surface, the soup also gets cold faster than a Witch's tit in December. IMNSHO, a "cup" should be exactly that ... 8 fl oz, and a bowl should hold at least 1.5 - 2x that (i.e., 12-16 oz) ... and by "bowl" I mean a real honest to God BOWL, not a dinner plate pretending to be one.
I've actually been in restaurants in which the "bowl" (and I use the term loosely) held exactly the same, or slighly less, than the "cup" portion.
Stuffed items that aren't, in fact, stuffed:
This happened today, at lunch, and I'm eating it as I type this. I selected a stuffed pork chop in the cafeteria, and sure enough, it was a whole pork chop that was just lazily piled atop a small blob of stuffing. Um, hello ? It's ok to do that with, say, a thin fish fillet, like flounder ... but a pork chop is *supposed* to have a pocket cut inside it, and be stuffed. Ditto for stuffed chicken breast. Ditto for breast of veal. "Stuffing" something is supposed to mean stuffing something ... not giving it the "slop and drop" treatment, with an ice cream scooper and a pair of tongs.
Last edited by Darb on Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peeve: UNOFFICIAL vs OFFICIAL HOURS (of operation)
So, this past wednesday night I tried to go to a local Korean restaurant, for some late dinner. The posted hours said they were open until 10pm. I got there around 9:35, and was informed that they were already closed. I pointed to the menu that said, prominently, they were open until 10pm. The waiter said the kitchen closes at 8:30pm, and the doors close at 10pm. I replied that the menu lists FOOD, and if food is no longer served after 8:30 then the menu should indicate that (for the benefit of people who are coming there to eat) ... who gives a #@$% when the doors get locked in a place that doesn't even have a bar or an after-hours scene ? Duh.
The waiter shrugged, and I left.
So, this past wednesday night I tried to go to a local Korean restaurant, for some late dinner. The posted hours said they were open until 10pm. I got there around 9:35, and was informed that they were already closed. I pointed to the menu that said, prominently, they were open until 10pm. The waiter said the kitchen closes at 8:30pm, and the doors close at 10pm. I replied that the menu lists FOOD, and if food is no longer served after 8:30 then the menu should indicate that (for the benefit of people who are coming there to eat) ... who gives a #@$% when the doors get locked in a place that doesn't even have a bar or an after-hours scene ? Duh.
The waiter shrugged, and I left.
Last edited by Darb on Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sean Whitton
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Lol, don't go there again. People like that are really hopeless; if we must run on capitalism let there be fair, honest and open businesses (please don't turn this into a debate...).Brad wrote:UNOFFICIAL vs OFFICIAL HOURS (of operation)
So, this past wednesday night I tried to go to a local Korean restaurant, for some late dinner. The posted hours said they were open until 10pm. I got there around 9:35, and was informed that they were already closed. I pointed to the menu that said, prominently, they were open until 10pm. The waiter said the kitchen closes at 8:30pm, and the doors close at 10pm. I replied that the menu lists FOOD, and if food is no longer served after 8:30 then the menu should indicate that (for the benefit of people who are coming there to eat) ... who gives a #@$% when the doors get locked in a place that doesn't even have a bar or an after-hours scene ? Duh.
The waiter shrugged, and I left.
Formerly known as 'Xyrael'.
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violetblue
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It's just as well you didn't get any food, Brad, because who knows what might have been in it. I'm afraid to even send food back for whatever reason, if I don't like it, or it needs heated more. Nothing is swifter and more sure than an angered chef or waiter's revenge!
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Greabo Girl
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One of my greatest pet peeves will soon be eliminated at work: convenience items! 
We just got an executive chef as our new director and he wants everything made from scratch, which is fine by me. And he's really cool, too. No one ever helps me--all my fellow cooks have the "it's not my job" mentality and I have the "everything's my job" mentality, so I just suck it up and get it done. But Mark (my new boss) came out into the kitchen (you never know when he'll appear--he seems to be everywhere at once) and started helping me. He's a bundle of barely restrained intensity. I was cutting more potatoes and he came over and started cutting up potatoes as if his family would perish if he didn't get them cut fast enough. (In my mind, I thought, "Dude, I can handle this--I've been handling it for four years so far..." But said nothing. He wanted to help, which was fine by me.) I'm just not used to the boss coming out of the office to lend a hand. He makes me nervous, though. I'm always afraid I might be doing something wrong...but so far, he's said nothing negative to me--and I hope it stays that way. I always try to do the best I can. I just hope he'll get rid of the incompetents I work with--I always have to go back and re-do their sloppy work. I've raised complaints before, but nothing's been done about it. Hopefully...now, though I've long learned to never keep my hopes up...
Anyway, making something from beginning to end and seeing people enjoy what you've made gives me such a wonderful feeling.
As for convenience items: If someone thinks it's good and tells me so. "Woo-hoo! They must have done something right in the factory..."
We just got an executive chef as our new director and he wants everything made from scratch, which is fine by me. And he's really cool, too. No one ever helps me--all my fellow cooks have the "it's not my job" mentality and I have the "everything's my job" mentality, so I just suck it up and get it done. But Mark (my new boss) came out into the kitchen (you never know when he'll appear--he seems to be everywhere at once) and started helping me. He's a bundle of barely restrained intensity. I was cutting more potatoes and he came over and started cutting up potatoes as if his family would perish if he didn't get them cut fast enough. (In my mind, I thought, "Dude, I can handle this--I've been handling it for four years so far..." But said nothing. He wanted to help, which was fine by me.) I'm just not used to the boss coming out of the office to lend a hand. He makes me nervous, though. I'm always afraid I might be doing something wrong...but so far, he's said nothing negative to me--and I hope it stays that way. I always try to do the best I can. I just hope he'll get rid of the incompetents I work with--I always have to go back and re-do their sloppy work. I've raised complaints before, but nothing's been done about it. Hopefully...now, though I've long learned to never keep my hopes up...
Anyway, making something from beginning to end and seeing people enjoy what you've made gives me such a wonderful feeling.
As for convenience items: If someone thinks it's good and tells me so. "Woo-hoo! They must have done something right in the factory..."
"A writer's chosen task is to write well and professionally. If you can't keep doing it, then you're no longer a professional, but a gifted amateur." L. E. Modessit, jr.
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violetblue
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One of my friend's husbands was the warehouse manager for a food distribution company here in town. They brought in food items for most of the restaurants in the area. I was shocked at how much of the food was precooked. We're talking whole meals in baggies, just heat and serve! I used to like some national chains because it used to be possible to go and eat homemade food. Olive Garden, for example, used to make their own breadsticks on premises. Not anymore.Aunflin wrote:One of my greatest pet peeves will soon be eliminated at work: convenience items!
The overuse of convenience foods is a infectious disease that has even taken over local businesses. You'd think in a college town, we could get decent pizza. Not so. It's a lot cheaper and easier for the places to buy premade crusts, slap on some high-water content, cheap cheese, and call it a day. They know they'll sell it regardless, so why bother doing more?
Anyway, Aunflin, this is one of my pet peeves also. It's really irritating how hard it is to find fresh, homemade food in a restaurant. I'll open a can at home if I want something chockful of preservatives and artificial flavors and colors (to make it look "pretty" and keep it looking that way). I don't eat fast food (Supersize Me sums up my viewpoint on that), and avoid national chains, so I just don't eat out a lot. To be fair, though, there are some local restaurants here in town which do a great job. My co-op runs a restaurant which is really good, no artificial anything.
I think it's laudable that your restaurant is moving away from convenience foods. It sounds like your new manager is a micro-manager. Maybe he's nervous about his new position. But if you can get on his good side, you might be able to help move those slackers on out!
N is for NEVILLE, who died of ennui
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