Would you wear A Still Suit?

Dune: "A beginning is a very delicate time. Know then that it is the year 10,191 ..."
Post Reply

Would you wear A Still Suit?

Absolutley I would!
10
36%
Only if the goverment made me
0
No votes
Only if the goverment made me
0
No votes
Only if the goverment made me
0
No votes
What are you crazy?
5
18%
What are you crazy?
5
18%
What are you crazy?
5
18%
What is a still suit some kind of Taco?
1
4%
What is a still suit some kind of Taco?
1
4%
What is a still suit some kind of Taco?
1
4%
 
Total votes: 28

User avatar
mrdude
Monolith Dancer
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:45 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Contact:

Would you wear A Still Suit?

Post by mrdude »

So the Question is, would you wear one? Why, why not?




(hopefully you have read Dune by frank Herbert and know what I am talking about)

Oh and as for my answer, of corse I would, it's just so darn cool! (if this thread actually does anything but collect dust I'll actually talk more about the subject)
- Mr. Dude
Google Profile

-------------------------
"You love life because life's all there is." — Glen Duncan, The Last Werewolf
Darb
Punoholic
Posts: 18466
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 9:15 am
Contact:

Post by Darb »

A still suit would be horrifically uncomfortable ... just think about how nasty it'd feel wearing a full-body condom, with a catheter up your willie, and a tube up your sphincter, with balloons under your heels to pump fluid. Ugh. Think about having to squat in order to defecate into a sphincter catheter. Ugh. Think of all the problems with clogged pores, skin infections, rashes, body odor, etc. Double Ugh. No, make that quadruple ugh.

So yes, I'd wear one - but only for a short time, and only if my life absolutely depended on it for survival ... otherwise forget about it. Nothing 'cool' about it. Quite the opposite.
User avatar
KiltanneN
Legionnaire
Posts: 3957
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:47 pm
Location: A Kiwi Living in the NY Area - No Longer!

Post by KiltanneN »

I would wear one if I absolutely needed to survive in a place as dry as Arrakis, But I am not so sure such a place exists here on Earth ...

The Arabs managed to survive throughout history in mostly desert areas without them - but it would be interesting to see if a stillsuit could actually improve quality of life in such an area...

kilt

edit: corrected some confusing words
Last edited by KiltanneN on Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
The wonderful thing about not planning
Is that failure comes as a complete surprise
And is not preceded by a period of worry or depression
User avatar
bob k. mando
Defender of Database Integrity et Critic
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:08 am
Location: Ghost in the Machine
Contact:

Post by bob k. mando »

the still suit is an interesting concept ... but i don't remember that herbert ever dealt with the new problem he creates, temperature regulation of the body.

no sweat evaporation = no cooling of the body to speak of + insulation factor of the stillsuit itself means that you would virtually be required to install a refrigeration unit in the stupid things or you'd steam yourself to death in all that water you were recycling.... ooopsie. :smash:
Words of wisdom about hippies from Neil Young circa 1970:
"Soldiers are gunning us down,
Should have been done long ago."
Aunflin
Legionnaire
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Maryville, MO

Post by Aunflin »

bob k. mando wrote:the still suit is an interesting concept ... but i don't remember that herbert ever dealt with the new problem he creates, temperature regulation of the body.

no sweat evaporation = no cooling of the body to speak of + insulation factor of the stillsuit itself means that you would virtually be required to install a refrigeration unit in the stupid things or you'd steam yourself to death in all that water you were recycling.... ooopsie. :smash:
Hehe. I never thought of it that way, BKM. But you're right. What use is it to remain hydrated if you're gonna boil to death anyway? :roll:

And I agree with Brad, I don't think wearing a still suit would be a comfortable prospect in the least bit. I'd only wear one in the direst of circumstances (such as being transported to a Hellishly dry world such as Arrakis) and only if I didn't get cooked to a nice even tenderness in the process. Otherwise, I would dress like a Bedouin and trust my luck--with an ample supply of water on hand, of course. :)
"A writer's chosen task is to write well and professionally. If you can't keep doing it, then you're no longer a professional, but a gifted amateur." L. E. Modessit, jr.
jweb
Deep Thinker
Posts: 609
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:07 pm

Post by jweb »

I don't recall Herbert ever mentioning heat exchange in the book either. However, remember that deserts are blisteringly hot during the day, but also freezing cold at night. Provided that one could find a way to absorb body and environmental heat during the day into some form of efficient thermal storage within the suit, the stored heat could be used to keep the wearer warm during the night, with any excess bled off into a convenient heat sink (like the rock wall/floor of a cave) while sleeping. I don't know how this would be done, but it seems doable. Considering that we already know how to build palm-size engines that can efficiently convert body heat into usable kinetic energy, the technological advances made by the time of the book could probably handle the rest.
Aunflin
Legionnaire
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Maryville, MO

Post by Aunflin »

I think it would be more interesting to have the "sand trout" skin (or whatever it was called...?) that Leto acquired in The Children of Dune, though I'd pass on eventually becoming a gigantic god-like sandworm…:roll:
"A writer's chosen task is to write well and professionally. If you can't keep doing it, then you're no longer a professional, but a gifted amateur." L. E. Modessit, jr.
Darb
Punoholic
Posts: 18466
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 9:15 am
Contact:

Post by Darb »

Yes, it was a touching tragedy to slowly become non-human over several thousand years (as well as the paternal shepherd/gardener of mankind itself), only to eventually fall in love and be unable to consummate. Herbert did a good job with that.

Classic fallen, reborn and transfigured diety motif there too ... classic Joseph Campbell theme.
Aunflin
Legionnaire
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Maryville, MO

Post by Aunflin »

A tragedy indeed. However, I think it would be much worse to suffer Duncan Idaho's fate: to basically be reborn time and time again...
"A writer's chosen task is to write well and professionally. If you can't keep doing it, then you're no longer a professional, but a gifted amateur." L. E. Modessit, jr.
Darb
Punoholic
Posts: 18466
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 9:15 am
Contact:

Post by Darb »

How many were there before me ? :hot2:

How did I die ? :hot2:
lhaughlhann
Bookworm
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:20 pm
Location: South Africa

Post by lhaughlhann »

wearing a full-body condom, with a catheter up your willie, and a tube up your sphincter, with balloons under your heels to pump fluid. Ugh.
:clap: Brad

What an interesting concept, i wonder what Frank herbert would've thought if he heard that? Anyway, i think i'd have to agree with you though, although if i were on Arrakis, im sure i'd be able to tolerate it since it would be saving my life somewhat.

Kiltannen is right, about here on earth though, the Arabs seemed to have got it down.
"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters!" SOLOMON SHORT
Excerpt from A Matter for Men by David Gerrold
Darb
Punoholic
Posts: 18466
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 9:15 am
Contact:

Post by Darb »

I'm sure the author would have wanted to bitchslap me for that response, for the audacity of kicking his suspension-of-disbelief squarely in the nads with the steel-tipped boot of stark reality. :lol:

Once again, it's good to have you aboard - this sub-fora has languished a bit, for lack of discussion activity.

It's not for lack of people who's read the books though ... it's mostly been due to a paucity of good questions. :wink:
Kenneth
Apprentice Scribe
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:08 pm
Location: California

Post by Kenneth »

I beleive that I would test one, to see how it would effect your overall proformance. I would go to the largest and dryest desert int eh world and live there for about a moneth or so and see how it works.
Concealed behind strong barriers the heart becomes ice.
--Darwi Odrade, Argument in Council
User avatar
KiltanneN
Legionnaire
Posts: 3957
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:47 pm
Location: A Kiwi Living in the NY Area - No Longer!

Post by KiltanneN »

Kenneth wrote:I beleive that I would test one, to see how it would effect your overall proformance.
Good idea - I would suggest doing the same with the type of clothing the Arabic people wear when living their nomadic life - and with both tests starting with a fixed amount of water and staying with that [but do it with some level of supervision - if you die of [theoretical] thirst we would miss your posts at the IBDoF]
The wonderful thing about not planning
Is that failure comes as a complete surprise
And is not preceded by a period of worry or depression
Kenneth
Apprentice Scribe
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:08 pm
Location: California

Post by Kenneth »

lol, fine I will, after I try a gilli suit
Concealed behind strong barriers the heart becomes ice.
--Darwi Odrade, Argument in Council
SciFiEnthusiast
Bookworm
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:48 pm

Post by SciFiEnthusiast »

It is interesting to test this in the desert(if it existed), but to answer the orginal question:

NO, there is at this time an abundance of water on the world and no need to worry for its conservation yet.

As to whose fate was worse: Leto II's or Idaho's? You must remember that he was not "reborn time and time again..." as Aunflin stated. Each ghola was a unique identity and had only been reborn once. He was also born in a strange world in which all of his world had changed and his entire society was dead, he was the ultimate alien amongst a land of foreigners. Leto's sacrifice cannot be ignored however--to have an unending life in endless "pearls of awareness". This consciousness is the ultimate torture, that of never being allowed to die or take action. Over time his consciousness would devolve into that of just a passive sentient "pearl" to be lost in the infinity of space perpetually.

Thus, I believe that it is truly Leto II whose sacrifice was greater.
"He who knows others is wise; he who knows himself is enlightened."--- Lao-Tzu
User avatar
Dragonfly
Bookworm
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:15 pm

Post by Dragonfly »

:wink: Hmmmm.... Wear one or die..... I'd wear one, no matter how uncomfortable. But I would have a hard time drinking my own body fluids over and over again.
Life is Short, Read a book.
User avatar
CodeBlower
Shakespearean Groupie
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:27 am
Location: IL, USA
Contact:

Post by CodeBlower »

Brad wrote:I'm sure the author would have wanted to bitchslap me for that response, for the audacity of kicking his suspension-of-disbelief squarely in the nads with the steel-tipped boot of stark reality. :lol:
Actually, I don't think your "flowery" description :wink: of the stillsuit's construction or working would differ all that much from Herbert's.

I believe he designed the suit to be as uncomfortable as you described -- but worn out of requirement due to the fact that you were trying to survive on a planet with almost no global moisture.

Testing the suit here, on Earth, while an interesting thought, is rather pointless because we have lots of moisture available -- not just globally, but in almost every part of the globe.

When the basis of your economy is water, allowing any moisture to escape would be the equivalent of tossing money to the ground with every step.

Either way, I'd wear it. :)
"Budge up, yeh great lump." -- Hagrid, HP:SS
-=-
The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
mccormack44
Grande Dame
Posts: 3951
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:45 pm
Location: Columbia, Missouri

Post by mccormack44 »

Since I agree with the majority — I would wear one to survive, but only for as long as necessary — my only reason for posting is to add a female voice to what seems to be a male discussion.

Sue
Dr_Toxicophilous
Apprentice Scribe
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:48 am
Location: In the Matrix

Post by Dr_Toxicophilous »

If I was on Arakis of course but they sound damn uncomfortable.
Omphalos
Orthodox Herbertarian
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Post by Omphalos »

"Feces and urine are processed in the thigh pouches." Sign me up for that! :thumb:
rpschmitz
Scribe
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:25 pm
Location: Maryville, MO

Re:

Post by rpschmitz »

SciFiEnthusiast wrote:It is interesting to test this in the desert(if it existed), but to answer the orginal question:

NO, there is at this time an abundance of water on the world and no need to worry for its conservation yet.

As to whose fate was worse: Leto II's or Idaho's? You must remember that he was not "reborn time and time again..." as Aunflin stated. Each ghola was a unique identity and had only been reborn once. He was also born in a strange world in which all of his world had changed and his entire society was dead, he was the ultimate alien amongst a land of foreigners. Leto's sacrifice cannot be ignored however--to have an unending life in endless "pearls of awareness". This consciousness is the ultimate torture, that of never being allowed to die or take action. Over time his consciousness would devolve into that of just a passive sentient "pearl" to be lost in the infinity of space perpetually.

Thus, I believe that it is truly Leto II whose sacrifice was greater.

Why was I incorrect?

If you're cloned or "gholam-ed" what's the difference???? :?

It seems like pretty much the same idea to me.

I really LOVE the Dune books....
In case of stairs, use fire. :?
Omphalos
Orthodox Herbertarian
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Re:

Post by Omphalos »

rpschmitz wrote:
SciFiEnthusiast wrote:It is interesting to test this in the desert(if it existed), but to answer the orginal question:

NO, there is at this time an abundance of water on the world and no need to worry for its conservation yet.

As to whose fate was worse: Leto II's or Idaho's? You must remember that he was not "reborn time and time again..." as Aunflin stated. Each ghola was a unique identity and had only been reborn once. He was also born in a strange world in which all of his world had changed and his entire society was dead, he was the ultimate alien amongst a land of foreigners. Leto's sacrifice cannot be ignored however--to have an unending life in endless "pearls of awareness". This consciousness is the ultimate torture, that of never being allowed to die or take action. Over time his consciousness would devolve into that of just a passive sentient "pearl" to be lost in the infinity of space perpetually.

Thus, I believe that it is truly Leto II whose sacrifice was greater.

Why was I incorrect?

If you're cloned or "gholam-ed" what's the difference???? :?

It seems like pretty much the same idea to me.

I really LOVE the Dune books....
Clones are duplicates made from genetic material. Gholas are dead flesh repaired and reanimated. As Herbert went on in the books gholas in fact became clones, though they were still called gholas. Both clones and gholas could be awakened to past lives

the pearls of awareness were not sentient.
rpschmitz
Scribe
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:25 pm
Location: Maryville, MO

Re: Would you wear A Still Suit?

Post by rpschmitz »

I guess I got a little confused...

...but ghola's and clones still seem like the same thing (different name) to me... :roll:

If you take DNA from a living or dead body and re-grow it to maturity...and your experiment is successfull--what's the difference?

Yes, in Dune, it is the inherent memories in the genes...but if they're still the same genes..whether dead, close to dead, or dying...What's the difference?

BTW

What do you think of Paul of Dune? I just read it a month ago and sorta liked it......?
In case of stairs, use fire. :?
Omphalos
Orthodox Herbertarian
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Would you wear A Still Suit?

Post by Omphalos »

Its been a while since I was by, so sorry for the late reply.

If you read the second book Herbert says that the BT took Idaho's body and fixed a head wound and sent him back. There is more there, but it essentially says that they repaired a dead body and reanimated it. In the later books they are preparing and sending out "serial gholas," which suggests that they are making new bodies from the cells of the originals.

It is all open to argument (of which there is a LOT out there), but the way I read it, that is what is happening. I'll admit you have to read between the lines though.

As for Paul of Dune, absolute trash, IMHO, unworthy of being recycled into toilet paper. But read whatever floats your boat and don't pay attention to people who naysay; Read whatever you like.
Post Reply

Return to “Frank Herbert”