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holmes_douglas wrote:Or Mathom (1 Sherlock for identifying that term, 2 for identifying the word I meant if I got the wrong word).

jweb wrote:Anything that Hobbits had no immediate use for, but were unwilling to throw away, they called a mathom.

Hmmmm .... I've never heard the word "Mathom", and I was not aware that it occured anywhere in JRRT's works. Does that term come from the Middle Earth Roleplaying Game (MERP) ?

If you can provide a direct page reference to a JRRT work, I'll double the Sherlock point. If it's MERP, no bonus.

- Tolkien Geek

it's to do with the present exchanging in The Hobbit i think.

I can't find my copy, so i looked it up in my Tolkien Companion, and the definition is right. apparently the untranslated word is kast..

[MODERATION ALERT] Trivia discussion split out of main thread, and relocated to JRRT area.

JEA Tyler cooked up some material on his own when he wrote & embellished his entries in "The Tolkien Companion" (I have an original copy at home, but not with me ATM) ... so if it's just in the companion, no bonus. The bonus I'm offering only applies if someone can provide a direct page reference to one of JRRT's works.

it isn't just MERP at least. I can't find my Hobbit. oh well.

Well, it's definitely not in LOTR or Silmarillion - I've read both of those many many times over. However, I've only read the hobbit once or twice (seen it many times though), so there's a fair chance I could be wrong.

If I were absolutely sure of myself, there'd be no point in offering the Sherlock to prove me wrong.

If I remember correctly, in the Fellowship of the Ring, Bilbo retrieves his mithril coat from the Mathom-house; the Hobbit museum or whatever.

From: http://www.folds.net/Tolkien/mathom_definition.html

Mathom
n. hobbitish. A birthday present, esp. one whose use has been forgotten.

"Hobbits give presents to other people on their own birthdays. Not very expensive ones, as a rule, and not so lavishly as on this occasion; but it was not a bad system."

-- The Fellowship of the Ring, pp. 50-51.

"It was a tendency of hobbit-holes to get cluttered up; for which the custom of giving so many birthday-presents was largely responsible. Not, of course, that the birthday-presents were always new; there were one or two old mathoms of forgotten uses that had circulated all around the district; but Bilbo had usually given new presents and kept those that he received."

-- The Fellowship of the Ring, p. 65.

Mathom-house
"The museum of Michel Delving, a repository of arms and other mathoms. Bilbo lent his mithril-mail to the Mathom-house, but reclaimed it before leaving the Shire in TA 3001."

-- The Complete Guide To Middle-Earth, p. 324.

citing The Fellowship of the Ring, p. 25,
and The Hobbit, p. 285.

I recall the reference to the museum of Michel Delving, and the display of Bilbo's mithril shirt there, but the mathom reference is a new one on me. I'll reread it when I get home.

In the meantime, I hereby award the bonus point to Clong, since he was the first with exact page references.

I learned something new today

Brad wrote:If you can provide a direct page reference to a JRRT work, I'll double the Sherlock point. If it's MERP, no bonus.

I expect you to pay up out of your pocket. I've already awarded jweb his point from my supply.

Good boy. Now explain to clong what he just won.

Heh. OK.

CLONG: You've been awarded a Sherlock Point. They're not really worth anything ... except to literary geeks.

Have you ever watched "Whose Line Is It ?" on the comedy network ? The going exchange rate between our points and theirs is roughly 1:1 (i.e., they're about as useful as the inspection tag on an empty fire extinguisher, or the wash & care tag on a sweater that's already shrunk too small for even a poodle to wear)

You mean there's not a big cash payout?

I used to watch Who's line (both the British and American versions) bk (before kids).

Nope, no cash unfortunately ... if there were, I'd be a lot more active in the game, and probably filthy rich by now.