Yet *Another* Quote Game [First line game]

[voralfred]

To ravenwing: I did notice you slipped in "The person above".
I do not remember noticing a third instance, but maybe there was.
(you played coreectly in "This or That?" .. and moonwolf, a member since almost two years, just slipped there. No big deal. )

To tollbaby: I don't consider "being helpful" to say "Instructions are at the beginning of a thread" when they are spread all over the place, internally contradictory, and often more precedents than written rules.

Considering the topics I raised above can anybody tell me the rules here (in MQG and LMBQG they are pretty clear, or at least the precedents are consistent - here precedents are very inconsistent, and written rules self-contradictory, if ever written at all)

I list them again:

1) contrary to MQG and LMBQG where the proponent gives more and more hints till his quote is found, but a quote rarely gets cold, unless the proponent loses interest, do we put a time limit after which anyone can post a new one? How long? Seven days? Ten? More?
2) again contrary to MQG and LMBQG do we demand prompt posting of a new quote after acknowledgement of success by the proponent? Again, how long? 24 hours? 48? Longer?
3) do we renounce the MQG etiquette of waiting for acknowledgement? Indeed, at the beginning of this game winners whoe were positive of their answers posted immediately
4) about the "penultimate poster prohibition"?
4a) when it applies, how long? 5 days as in the other games, or just 3?
4b) if the rules here are decided to differ from the other games, there would be more cold quotes and "jumpstarts". So does it apply also, in that case, to the jumpstarter (to simplify the rules) or not (as would be more logical considering the rationale of the rule) ?
4c) on the other hand, what about the person who posted the quote that grew cold? Can (s)he answer the jumpstarter's quote at once or does the 5 (or 3?)-days prohibition apply?


"Helpful" would be a clear and unambiguous answer to these questions.

For the record, the current quote is by Sue

John Daniels had been in the pressroom almost an hour when Merrill McDaniels came in.

[voralfred]

Oh, one more ambiguous rule.


viewtopic.php?p=1799760#1799760

You can’t win a Sherlock if you don’t post the next quote, (...)

In MQG and LMBQG the sherlock is awarded as soon as the quote is found. But do we use Ghost's rule if a winner does not post a new quote within 24 (or 48 ) hours and a jumpstarter does?
This is in fact two questions

5a) Is the Sherlock lost?
5b) Can the last winner who lost the sherlock for not posting soon enough answer immediately the jumpstarter's question or does the "penultimate poster" prohibition apply?


Help, anyone?


Conversely, we could go to the same rules as the MQG (which I do not play, but that I studied carefully to mimick its rules for the LMBQG)

1) No specific time window. The proponent of a quote gives hints if it is not found fast enough; only if he does not, and a quote stays unanswered for a long time, a moderator comes in after a time (s)he judges suitable and declares the quote cold.
2) Same rule. No specific time, but if excess a moderator steps in. In the LMBQG it happened exactly once: a newcomer (Sharkbait) to the forum solved a quote and disappeared.
3) Courtesy is to wait for OK from the proponent even if one is positive one is right. However if the proponent does not come back in a reasonable time span, maybe a moderator steps in, googles the quote if necessary and gives the OK?
4a) 5 days
4b) jumpstarts are very rare, and I have not seen a precedent for this situation (of jumpstarts, I saw a few precedents, but not of a jumpstarter wanting to post just after the answer to his quote) but still in case of one one sould make a ruling, one way or the other, but unambiguous.
4c) same as 4b) we need a ruling. But if a proponent omits to give new hints so long that a moderator has to intervene, I move that he can't answer the jumpstarter's new quote at all even after 5 days.

5a) sherlock awarded upon solving, not upon posting a new quote (SharkBait with a total of 3 posts has one sherlock! )
5b) same as 4b) and 4c) I did not see a precedent, we need a ruling. See 4c) for my opinion in such a case.

Note, however, that these rules are not consistent with the way this game has been played earlier. In particular this choice for 5a) goes against Ghost's rule. But that would uniformize all three games for the future. Maybe not a bad idea.
Moreover I've looked further into it, and found that, Ghost's rule notwithstanding, it has been the practice for some time to award the sherlock before a new quote was posted, just as in the MQG.

So what should we do? Follow the written rules, or uniformize to MQG rules?
We still need a ruling on 4b) even though jumpsarts will be not so frequent.
As for 4c) and 5b) I really think that a proponent who shows such negligence should be barred from answering the next quote not just for 5 days but indefinitely. Of course he can play normally on the quote after next.

Incidentally, ODDBALL715 owes a sherlock to Sue. Explanations for awarding sherlocks can be found here:
viewtopic.php?p=868920#868920


For the record, the current quote is by Sue

John Daniels had been in the pressroom almost an hour when Merrill McDaniels came in.

[ODDBALL715]

John Daniels had been in the pressroom almost an hour when Merrill McDaniels came in.

Is this cold? It's been over a week, how about some hints.

[mccormack44]

The author is best know for a series of books; this book is outside the series, but in the same genre.

[voralfred]

John Daniels had been in the pressroom almost an hour when Merrill McDaniels came in.

However,

John Cotton had been in the pressroom almost an hour when Merrill McDaniels came in

in "The Fly on the Wall"

[voralfred]

Another hour or so it will be 24 hours since I posted the answer. Now according to the rules if I don't post now, anyone will be allowed to post. Or, since in fact ravenwing has already posted, that post will automatically become the current one, by default.
So to avoid that (sorry, ravenwing ) I post the next quote now:

En 1815, M. Charles-François-Bienvenu Myriel était évêque de Digne. C'était un vieillard d'environ soixante-quinze ans; il occupait le siège de Digne depuis 1806.

Does this need a translation? OK:

In 1815, Mr. Charles-Francois-Bienvenu Myriel was Bishop of Digne. He was an old man of about seventy-five years of age; he had occupied the see of Digne since 1806.

[mccormack44]

Voralfred is correct and earns a Sherlock.

I don't see how I managed to miscopy the sentence, though I probably did. But the lapse of time in my response comes from being ill last night. I DID check the board, but managed to miss some posts. Sorry about that.

[Ghost]

Did we ever decide whether this game was for a Sherlock or not. I think the last I say in htis thread was thta it the poster said it was for a Sherlock then it was othrwise it was not.

IMHO: I do not believe it should be because you can google most if not all the answers.

[tollbaby]

Has this work been translated and published in English? If not, then it isn't really suitable for the game. If it has, the first sentence from the English version should be used.

[voralfred]

Has this work been translated and published in English? If not, then it isn't really suitable for the game. If it has, the first sentence from the English version should be used.

It has been translated and published several, or rather, many times.
The first sentence in english is not mine, I found it on Amazon. (I would have written "episcopal seat", not "see"). But trying to find it again, I found a slightly different one ("diocese of Digne" instead of "see").
So the only canonical one is the french original. As for translations there are pobably dozens. I would not have proposed a french book if it was not something that english-speaking members of the forum could guess. I know there are a few french speakers, but...

OK, so a hint: Monseigneur Myriel is not the main character (as "Harry Potter") or not even a major protagonist or antagonist (as "Ron", "Hermione", "Voldemort", "Snape") and the main character has only a short encounter with him. But since this encounter has a profound influence on the main character, the entire book, in some sense, is shaped by it, and the author chose to begin the book with him.

[voralfred]

I have been discussing this book with my wife who teaches French in high school. If one restricts to "pure" literature, excluding "philosophical" works like Montaigne's Essais or Pascal's Pensées, and further eliminates plays and poetry, one is really hard-pressed to find a more famous French novel (well, of course you can argue about half-a-dozen others, depending on your taste, but still...).
Mind you, the first line may be a bit disorienting as there is no direct allusion to the main character or the general theme of the book. But if you stop and think whose behaviour could be profoundly influenced by meeting Monseigneur Myriel, then you have it!

[tollbaby]

Never having read it, I'm purely guessing here, but The Hunchback of Notre-Dame? (btw, there are MANY MANY French novels that are as well-known or moreso, especially in America... the plethora of works of Jules Verne and Victor Hugo come to mind... I know Les Misérables will always hold a place of dread in my heart)

[voralfred]

Never having read it, I'm purely guessing here, but The Hunchback of Notre-Dame?

This is not the right answer, but you are not very far off...

Les Misérables will always hold a place of dread in my heart

This I can see easily.....
Quite obviously, you intensely hated this book, and threw it out of your memory...

[tollbaby]

Detested it, actually.... and since I read it at the age of 14, I can hardly be expected to remember the first line of it *now* Since I ruined it, would you like to post another quote? *blush*

[voralfred]

Since I ruined it, would you like to post another quote? *blush*

Well, I'm not sure about that. You found it, after all, if in a roudabout way.
Should you not post the new one?

[mccormack44]

I am chagrined; I thought of the episode usually entitled "The Bishop's Candlesticks" in the translations where I have seen it anthologized! But I thought, NO, it can't be "Les Misarables." So I think Tollbaby gets it. She tried, and she did mention it.

Sue

[tollbaby]

Well, I maintain that there's no way I should get a point for that LOL I categorically thought it *wasn't* Les Mis LOL

Although I will post another one if you like... Shall get the book out of the trunk of my car at lunch and post it.

[voralfred]

.. Shall get the book out of the trunk of my car at lunch and post it.

Pretty long lunch-break..
If you prefer, should we consider ravenwing's post as the current one?

[tollbaby]

Ravenwing's post? Which one would that be? (and for pete's sake, have a little patience. We usually don't consider this thread cold until it hasn't been touched for a week).

[voralfred]

I was thinking of this one:

Here's one. ^^

Color is the great magic.
I learned that one day as I watched my mother preparing for the most recent of her lovers. She, intent on the mirror over her elegant, gilded vanity, did not see me as I watched her from a mirror set in the boder of a picture frame, two reverses making the image right again.
I was some years older that I had been in that rainless year when I had been born -- five, maybe six years old.

Let's see who can get this one. ^^

also

Instructions are at the beginning of the thread.

So what about:

I think some more input.... let's give the topic a little time and see what happens.

For the record, here's my opinion:

Sherlock awarded for each correct guess
Previous winner cannot guess on the next quote for 3 days
Quote goes cold after 7 days
New quote to be posted within 24 hours

[tollbaby]

Common courtesy has always dictated a bit of leeway, but apparently that's a problem now. Whatever you want.

[voralfred]

That is not for me to decide, I think, but rather to ravenwing.
Ravenwing, do you consider your quote should be the current one or are you ready to leave more time to tollbaby?

Just for the record, I was not the one to start being strict (to use a refined vocabulary) about rules.

[mccormack44]

About the rules:

I've just gone back to the top and read them. I think that by now, we have all decided that answers ALL deserve Sherlocks.

Earlier, after naming my book (and correcting my input) Voralfred (correctly) hurried to post before I had responded to his answer.

Since the poster may not return in 24 hours, and since the responder MIGHT not be correct in his response, I believe that the 24 hour rule should take effect AFTER the Sherlock has been rewarded.

Any disagreements here? (Maybe I shouldn't talk about this—I LOVE this game, but seldom get a chance to answer. I just don't seem to read the appropriate books.)

Sue

[voralfred]

Well, in principle I would agree with you. This is how it is done in other games.
But the rules are not so well-defined, the notion of "at the beginning of the thread" is vague, some people interpret it the way they want, and someone, whom I am well-placed to know is a great sticker to the rules (in an entirely different context, that of a perfectly innocent "banter"), once hurried to answer while I was wondering whether I was allowed to or not (while his responsibility as an administrator should have been to tell me to answer, not to answer before I did, since my waiting for approval was purely "common courtesy", in any reasonable interpretation). So I just did not want it to happen again, and acted discourteously. Sorry it was after your post, as you are the last person here I'd want to be discourteous to, but there was nothing personal about it. I did it as a matter of principle, just to make a point.
If the rules are made explicit rather than vaguely alluded to, I would agree with you that the time limit should indeed start AFTER the sherlock is awarded (which has, after some time, become the unwritten etiquette of this game, though it is contrary to the more or less written rules at the beginning of it) and I would also agree with tollbaby, that leeway be allowed (several days, maybe a week, then some administrator decides the winner had just given up, and declares the quote cold, as happened once in the LMBQG). I suggested it should be so.

But when I asked for precise rules, I was laughed at (this is an euphemism, in other words: refined vocabulary).

[ravenwing989]

That is not for me to decide, I think, but rather to ravenwing.
Ravenwing, do you consider your quote should be the current one or are you ready to leave more time to tollbaby?

Whatever you want. I'd give tollbaby more time. I played wrong anyway, so just ignore me.